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Washington Fairs

G

gregma

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Redmond, Washington, USA
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JoeRocket in another thread mentioned Washington State Fairs, and considering it's getting closer to Fair season I wanted to ask.

Anyone know policies, laws, experiences with OC'ing at the Fairs? I'm thinking the Evergreen State Fair (in monroe), and Puyallup Fair (in puyallup).

Couldn't find anything on web sites specific to firearms. Can they legally create victim rich zones?
 
W

wqbang

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Oct 17, 2006
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Federal Way, Washington, USA
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Not sure about the legality, but a couple years ago when going to the Puyallup Fair they had a large and unmistakable "No Weapons" sign at thegate we entered through. I ignored it because I was concealing and know that it has no force behind it other than a trespass. Not sure who owns the fairgrounds honestly.

Bryan
 
J

joeroket

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Joined
Dec 5, 2006
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Everett, Washington, USA
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wqbang wrote:
Not sure about the legality, but a couple years ago when going to the Puyallup Fair they had a large and unmistakable "No Weapons" sign at thegate we entered through. I ignored it because I was concealing and know that it has no force behind it other than a trespass. Not sure who owns the fairgrounds honestly.

Bryan
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I believe that they can regulate firearms. The washington state fair assoc. is an independant non-profit org that organizes and runs all the washington state fairs. Based on this they can regulate regardless of who owns the land because they are not a state agency. I cannot find anywhere, except back in the 20's and 30's, where the state funded the fairs. It appears to me that the state has no interest in fairs.
 
W

wqbang

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Federal Way, Washington, USA
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joeroket wrote:
wqbang wrote:
Not sure about the legality, but a couple years ago when going to the Puyallup Fair they had a large and unmistakable "No Weapons" sign at thegate we entered through. I ignored it because I was concealing and know that it has no force behind it other than a trespass. Not sure who owns the fairgrounds honestly.

Bryan
Click to expand...
I believe that they can regulate firearms. The washington state fair assoc. is an independant non-profit org that organizes and runs all the washington state fairs. Based on this they can regulate regardless of who owns the land because they are not a state agency. I cannot find anywhere, except back in the 20's and 30's, where the state funded the fairs. It appears to me that the state has no interest in fairs.
Click to expand...
Based on that I would say that if openly carrying a firearm I would expect to be turned away at the door. Their policy is clearly marked. It is private property and what they say goes in regard to what you do on their property. If you break the rules expect to be asked to leave and rightfully so.

Concealed means concealed - don't ask and don't tell.
 
U

USN_MA1

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154
Location
, Washington, USA
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(b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:

(i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; or

Then again, the preemtion trumps the city laws. I can't find what I was looking for that states that music festivals are bad but everything else(i.e fair)is ok...know what I am talking about?

I'm sure that I am just typing what you already know...:banghead:

Basically, I pretty much didnt help...lol
 
J

joeroket

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USN_MA1 wrote:
(b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:

(i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; or

Then again, the preemtion trumps the city laws. I can't find what I was looking for that states that music festivals are bad but everything else(i.e fair)is ok...know what I am talking about?

I'm sure that I am just typing what you already know...:banghead:

Basically, I pretty much didnt help...lol
Click to expand...


This is only valid if the municipality operates the stadium or convention center. If it is managed by a third party company, like quest, safeco, and the everett events center, they can ban firearms and be within the scope of the law as they do not fall under the pre-emption. This thread was asking about a fair which would not fall under this RCW anyway because it lacks the requirement to be considered a stadium or ceonvention center.

The outdoor music festival ban may be included during the fairs because it is all dependant on whether or not it is a govt sponsored fair. In my readings I cannot find anything that states the fairs are funded and/or sponsored by the govt, and this includes the music. Unless someone can show me otherwise I would have to say that the fairs are a no-no.
 
J

joeroket

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
3,339
Location
Everett, Washington, USA
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gregma wrote:
JoeRocket in another thread mentioned Washington State Fairs, and considering it's getting closer to Fair season I wanted to ask.

Anyone know policies, laws, experiences with OC'ing at the Fairs? I'm thinking the Evergreen State Fair (in monroe), and Puyallup Fair (in puyallup).

Couldn't find anything on web sites specific to firearms. Can they legally create victim rich zones?
Click to expand...
Puyallup fair has no weapons listed on thier website. The Evergreen fair site is coming up not found.
 
G

gregma

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Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Messages
618
Location
Redmond, Washington, USA
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I guess I didn't look hard enough at the Puyallup Fair website. I guess that cuts it, I won't be attending a fair this year. I'm sorry, I'm just not a "if they don't see it, they won't know", or "It's not wrong unless you're caught" type of guy. If they don't want my firearm, they don't want me. I'll respect their policy and just not spend money there this year. Hey, it'll save me a couple of hundred dollars anyway :D

But where am I going to get the Walla-Walla burgers!?!
 
U

USN_MA1

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Joined
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Messages
154
Location
, Washington, USA
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joeroket wrote:
USN_MA1 wrote:
(b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:

(i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; or

Then again, the preemtion trumps the city laws. I can't find what I was looking for that states that music festivals are bad but everything else(i.e fair)is ok...know what I am talking about?

I'm sure that I am just typing what you already know...:banghead:

Basically, I pretty much didnt help...lol
Click to expand...


This is only valid if the municipality operates the stadium or convention center. If it is managed by a third party company, like quest, safeco, and the everett events center, they can ban firearms and be within the scope of the law as they do not fall under the pre-emption. This thread was asking about a fair which would not fall under this RCW anyway because it lacks the requirement to be considered a stadium or ceonvention center.

The outdoor music festival ban may be included during the fairs because it is all dependant on whether or not it is a govt sponsored fair. In my readings I cannot find anything that states the fairs are funded and/or sponsored by the govt, and this includes the music. Unless someone can show me otherwise I would have to say that the fairs are a no-no.
Click to expand...
That is why I was looking for the part that included the music festivals and fairs. I am pretty sure that it stated that fairs were NOT included in the do not carry area. Still looking...
 
W

wqbang

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Oct 17, 2006
Messages
63
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
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gregma wrote:
I guess I didn't look hard enough at the Puyallup Fair website. I guess that cuts it, I won't be attending a fair this year. I'm sorry, I'm just not a "if they don't see it, they won't know", or "It's not wrong unless you're caught" type of guy. If they don't want my firearm, they don't want me. I'll respect their policy and just not spend money there this year.
Click to expand...

That is something everyone who goes armed needs to decide. Follow your conscience. If I were in charge of the fair, I wouldn't have the same policy. I do however support strong private property rights. It is a catch-22 for everyone involved. Your response is an absolutely appropriate one - but you already know that.
 
J

joeroket

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Joined
Dec 5, 2006
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3,339
Location
Everett, Washington, USA
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USN_MA1 wrote:
joeroket wrote:
USN_MA1 wrote:
(b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:

(i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; or

Then again, the preemtion trumps the city laws. I can't find what I was looking for that states that music festivals are bad but everything else(i.e fair)is ok...know what I am talking about?

I'm sure that I am just typing what you already know...:banghead:

Basically, I pretty much didnt help...lol
Click to expand...


This is only valid if the municipality operates the stadium or convention center. If it is managed by a third party company, like quest, safeco, and the everett events center, they can ban firearms and be within the scope of the law as they do not fall under the pre-emption. This thread was asking about a fair which would not fall under this RCW anyway because it lacks the requirement to be considered a stadium or ceonvention center.

The outdoor music festival ban may be included during the fairs because it is all dependant on whether or not it is a govt sponsored fair. In my readings I cannot find anything that states the fairs are funded and/or sponsored by the govt, and this includes the music. Unless someone can show me otherwise I would have to say that the fairs are a no-no.
Click to expand...
That is why I was looking for the part that included the music festivals and fairs. I am pretty sure that it stated that fairs were NOT included in the do not carry area. Still looking...
Click to expand...
The rcw you are looking for is 70.108. The definitions section, .020 I believe, is what spells out what an outdoor music festival is. It only applies to government sponsored fairs though.subsection 150is the firearms regulation for them.
 
J

joshmmm

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Joined
Feb 12, 2007
Messages
245
Location
Bellevue, Washington, USA
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(1) "Outdoor music festival" or "music festival" or "festival" means an assembly of persons gathered primarily for outdoor, live or recorded musical entertainment, where the predicted attendance is two thousand persons or more and where the duration of the program is five hours or longer: PROVIDED, That this definition shall not be applied to any regularly established permanent place of worship, stadium, athletic field, arena, auditorium, coliseum, or other similar permanently established places of assembly for assemblies which do not exceed by more than two hundred fifty people the maximum seating capacity of the structure where the assembly is held: PROVIDED, FURTHER, That this definition shall not apply to government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds nor to assemblies required to be licensed under other laws or regulations of the state.

[line]

The puyallup fair will not be considered an outdoor music festival. See bold points above.

Basically, this outdoor music festival law was created with one purpose: the gorge and summerjam. After too many shootings the legislature said enough.

They made it clear that it is 5 hours or more (no concerts at puyallup approach 5 hours).

They made it clear that it does not apply to any permanent structure as long as you don't overcrowd it by 250 people over capacity--puyallup fair concerts are held in a stadium, usually with seating (sometimes they have chairs in the field--sometimes not--but the grandstands always have seats). This clearly exempts the Puyallup fair from this.

I only wonder whether, assuming it lasts more than 5 hours, a concert at white river, tulalip or marymoor park would fit in this definition. (I suspect at least marymoor would, but doubt the others???) thoughts?
 
J

joeroket

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Dec 5, 2006
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Everett, Washington, USA
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joshmmm wrote:
(1) "Outdoor music festival" or "music festival" or "festival" means an assembly of persons gathered primarily for outdoor, live or recorded musical entertainment, where the predicted attendance is two thousand persons or more and where the duration of the program is five hours or longer: PROVIDED, That this definition shall not be applied to any regularly established permanent place of worship, stadium, athletic field, arena, auditorium, coliseum, or other similar permanently established places of assembly for assemblies which do not exceed by more than two hundred fifty people the maximum seating capacity of the structure where the assembly is held: PROVIDED, FURTHER, That this definition shall not apply to government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds nor to assemblies required to be licensed under other laws or regulations of the state.

[line]

The puyallup fair will not be considered an outdoor music festival. See bold points above.

Basically, this outdoor music festival law was created with one purpose: the gorge and summerjam. After too many shootings the legislature said enough.

They made it clear that it is 5 hours or more (no concerts at puyallup approach 5 hours).

They made it clear that it does not apply to any permanent structure as long as you don't overcrowd it by 250 people over capacity--puyallup fair concerts are held in a stadium, usually with seating (sometimes they have chairs in the field--sometimes not--but the grandstands always have seats). This clearly exempts the Puyallup fair from this.

I only wonder whether, assuming it lasts more than 5 hours, a concert at white river, tulalip or marymoor park would fit in this definition. (I suspect at least marymoor would, but doubt the others???) thoughts?
Click to expand...
Well that waswhat I was looking for. I guess it's time to use the magnifier function in windows seeing as how it was right in front of my eyes.:shock:
 
Gray Peterson

Gray Peterson

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Lynnwood, Washington, USA
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There is no "State fair" in Washington like there is in Oregon.

However the various county fairs MAY be run by the county or city governments here. My understanding is that Evergreen State Fair is operated by Snohomish County. I am checking on that fact.
 
just_a_car

just_a_car

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Auburn, Washington, USA
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joshmmm wrote:
just_a_car wrote:
gregma wrote:
But where am I going to get the Walla-Walla burgers!?!
Click to expand...
Buy some Walla Walla onions, pan-fry 'em at home and grill up some burgers. Home made is always better!
Click to expand...
But the curly fries!!!!!:exclaim:
Click to expand...
Pick some up from Jack In The Box or buy a bag of 'em. Don't like 'em done in the oven? Get a deep fryer. :p
 
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