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Thread: Why Carry at the mall?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Shovelhead's Avatar
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    http://news.wjla.com/news/stories/0707/443751.html



    Another victim in a "Weapons Free Zone" .

    I thought "Hunting over Bait" was illegal in Virginia.















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    i feel a keith urban song coming on ...

    "...i won't say i told you so ..."

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Shovelhead wrote: Good example of how an armed attacker will, well, attack ina public place. Malls are justanother public place where you canbe hurt, robbed, and/or killed by an assailant.

    I'mamused by the (admittedlybrief) write-up in the link. Why are so many basic details reported--but not thedetail thatthe robber had a gun?!

    Gawd, people who are biased are soooooo obvious.




    Police Investigate Armed Robbery at Potomac Mills


    Woodbridge, Va. - Tuesday July 31, 2007 6:00 pm
    Prince William County Police are investigating an armed robbery inside a bathroom in the Potomac Mills Mall.

    Officerssay around 2:40 p.m. Sunday, a man was approached by the thieffrom behind while inside a store bathroom, demanding his wallet.

    Investigators say after taking the victim's wallet, the suspect ran out through the store and into the mall's parking lot.

    Police say the suspect is a black man with aruddy complexion, between 35 and 50 years old, standing about 6'1" and weighting170 pounds.






  4. #4
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    Hell, here in Delaware there were TWO broad daylight robberies on the same Jewelry store in the Christiana Mall within a year or two of each other. I can't recall the details of one, but I know for a fact there were actually shots fired during the other.

    Just for perspective, that mall is pretty much the nicest mall in New Castle County.

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Wynder wrote:
    <snip>Just for perspective, that mall is pretty much the nicest mall in New Castle County.
    Remember, "nicest mall" often means "patrons with the most money".
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Well, let me put it this way.

    Delaware has no sales tax. The Christiana Mallis 15-20 minutes from New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Maryland -- nice thing being a small state and all. At one point it was one of the 10 most highest grossing malls per square foot in the United States.

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    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
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    Note: If you fail to comply with policy, you will be asked to leave. IF you fail to leave you will be charged with trespassing.

    So, I carry CC in PM mall every time. If they notice that I "failed" to comply with policy, they can ask me to leave, and I will.


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    nakedshoplifter wrote:




    Note: If you fail to comply with policy, you will be asked to leave. IF you fail to leave you will be charged with trespassing.

    So, I carry CC in PM mall every time. If they notice that I "failed" to comply with policy, they can ask me to leave, and I will.

    So, what does this sign mean if you openly or cc in the mall, are held up at gunpoint, shoot the BG, ? Can you be criminally liable because you disregarded the waring on the sign? Open yourself to a civil suit?


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    automan wrote:
    So, what does this sign mean if you openly or cc in the mall, are held up at gunpoint, shoot the BG, ? Can you be criminally liable because you disregarded the waring on the sign? Open yourself to a civil suit?
    I'd seriously doubt it. Because, in the end, it's still not illegalopen or concealed carry (with permit)-- they just reserve the right to ask you to leave and, if you refuse, you open yourself up to trespassing charges.

  10. #10
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Wynder wrote:
    automan wrote:
    So, what does this sign mean if you openly or cc in the mall, are held up at gunpoint, shoot the BG, ? Can you be criminally liable because you disregarded the waring on the sign? Open yourself to a civil suit?
    I'd seriously doubt it. Because, in the end, it's still not illegalopen or concealed carry (with permit)-- they just reserve the right to ask you to leave and, if you refuse, you open yourself up to trespassing charges.
    That's an interesting point. But the property owner reserving the right to ask you to leave if discovered doesn't mean that they approve of the CCing. In fact, they publicly notify invitees that it is "prohibited."

    Just because the invitee doesn't get caught CCing doesn't shift the liability over to the property owner if the CCerperchance becomesa goof with a gun and shoots something or somebody illegally. I'm guessing that if there were an illegal/unjustified shooting by a CCer in the mall, that whose liability it was would be a matter of extreme interest. The "deep pockets" factor comes into play, of course. The shooting victim would prefer to sue the mall. Hell, even the shooter would say it was the mall's fault--for not stopping him from CCing when it was clearly "prohibited." The guy would just lie and say he didn't see the sign or something. That would be hilarious. Both the shootee and the shooter could end up suing the mall.

    And some wonder why the malls don't want to mess with the gun thing...

    One thing I do know is that if a CCer attempts to or succeeds in shirking his legal responsibility in a shooting incident by blaming the malll somehow, that would be inequitable. On that logic, I'd say that the law probably relieves the mall from liability. But not, of course from litigation.

    If there was a legal and justifed shooting by a CCer walking around in prohibited fashion, I don't think it'd be too much trouble. Especially,in a state with a stand your ground law.

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    Wynder wrote:
    automan wrote:
    So, what does this sign mean if you openly or cc in the mall, are held up at gunpoint, shoot the BG, ?* Can you be criminally liable because you disregarded the waring on the sign?* Open yourself to a civil suit?
    I'd seriously doubt it.* Because, in the end, it's still not illegalopen or concealed carry (with permit)*-- they just reserve the right to ask you to leave and, if you refuse, you open yourself up to trespassing charges.
    Exactly.

    Per the sign, no you shouldn't do it here, and we'll only push the issue if you don't leave when we ask you to.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays!



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    Bravo_Sierra wrote:
    Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays!

    I would, if it weren't for that pesky old Federal Property stuff that comes up every time I show up to work.

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    This is one reason that I avoid Potomac Mills at all costs. They don't have anything in there that I can't get somewhere else, and for cheaper most times. And over the last few years, PM is becoming more and more a 'hangout' for all the little wannabe gang bangers, thugs, andpunks that live around here. And it is steadily getting worse. Ever been there at night?? Seen all the police presence?? I swear that about 50% of theLEOs in the county are there.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Bravo_Sierra wrote:
    Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays! Carry your gun awlays!

    What does "awlays" mean.

    (just had to throw that in the mix)


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    nakedshoplifter wrote:




    Note: If you fail to comply with policy, you will be asked to leave. IF you fail to leave you will be charged with trespassing.

    So, I carry CC in PM mall every time. If they notice that I "failed" to comply with policy, they can ask me to leave, and I will.
    There's an interesting part to this. The "mall" cannot arrest you, nor can they detain you. They are not law enforcement officers. And neither can a private security guard. All they can do is call the county police and tell them that someone is trespassing. It is the job of the responding officer(s) to make the arrest.

    So this gives you time to leave in a civil manner.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    nakedshoplifter wrote:
    Note: If you fail to comply with policy, you will be asked to leave. IF you fail to leave you will be charged with trespassing.

    So, I carry CC in PM mall every time. If they notice that I "failed" to comply with policy, they can ask me to leave, and I will.
    There's an interesting part to this. The "mall" cannot arrest you, nor can they detain you. They are not law enforcement officers. And neither can a private security guard. All they can do is call the county police and tell them that someone is trespassing. It is the job of the responding officer(s) to make the arrest.

    So this gives you time to leave in a civil manner.

    This is true.

    If they hold you there... how can you be trespassing?? :P

  18. #18
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    beradcee wrote:
    This is one reason that I avoid Potomac Mills at all costs. They don't have anything in there that I can't get somewhere else, and for cheaper most times. And over the last few years, PM is becoming more and more a 'hangout' for all the little wannabe gang bangers, thugs, andpunks that live around here. And it is steadily getting worse. Ever been there at night?? Seen all the police presence?? I swear that about 50% of theLEOs in the county are there.
    I used to live right near the area of the mall and when the opportunity came up to get out of Hoodbridge in '03 I did. There was a drug house directly across the street from mine and the cops never did anything about it regardless of the amount of complaints they received. 1 month after I moved the PWPD shut it down; it only took a shooting and a stabbing in the street for them to finally get proactive. I guess it is ok for a drug house to operate as long as there is no violence...at least in that area of PW county.



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    Toad wrote:
    Hoodbridge
    Good name for it, LOL.

    A friend of mine at work lives there and witnessed a murder in the parking lot of one of the box stores in that area (Walmart?). She heard some people shouting and then a pop. A gang of thugs were robbing some guy and put a slug in his head. She wound up giving comfort to a dying man. She used to bea paramedic, so she wasn't as shaken up as I would've expected, but she actually spoke to the guy as he faded.

    Second-hand story, of course, but I've known her for a while.

    Always carry your gun if you can.

  20. #20
    Regular Member CaptainCharles's Avatar
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    automan wrote:
    nakedshoplifter wrote:




    Note: If you fail to comply with policy, you will be asked to leave. IF you fail to leave you will be charged with trespassing.

    So, I carry CC in PM mall every time. If they notice that I "failed" to comply with policy, they can ask me to leave, and I will.

    So, what does this sign mean if you openly or cc in the mall, are held up at gunpoint, shoot the BG, ? Can you be criminally liable because you disregarded the waring on the sign? Open yourself to a civil suit?
    You could counter sue....Seeing how the criminal was also violating the sign....

  21. #21
    Regular Member Kevin108's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    I'm guessing that if there were an illegal/unjustified shooting by a CCer in the mall...
    Yeah, there is that possibility - like a 0.01% chance, give or take?

  22. #22
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Kevin108 wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    I'm guessing that if there were an illegal/unjustified shooting by a CCer in the mall...
    Yeah, there is that possibility - like a 0.01% chance, give or take?
    How do you get 0.01%?

    And what period is that for?

  23. #23
    Regular Member Kevin108's Avatar
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    Assuming an illegal shooting, or gun crime, commited by someone legally carrying concealed. No?

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