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Thread: Boy Scout functions are no gun zones?

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    I've never heard of this, but am HIGHLY interested in hearing from anyone that has witnessed this or has FIRSTHAND knowledge.

    I am an OA EagleScout in the BSA, and was considering writing the area council a letter about this fact.

    The Boy Scouts reguarly has shooting classes, and in the case of summer camps that I attended, had bonafide military scout/snipers teach the classes. Once you attended the class 3 times, and were at least 16 years old, you learned actual combat tactics directly from the snipers themselves.

    Of course, this camp was near Fort Polk, but I find it disgusting that some Boy Scouts functions are being made firearms-free when the very orgainization I belong to organized with the U.S. military in order to teach the older Scouts military sniper tactics.


    In fact, check this out:

    http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=8090869

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    Most BSA functions are indeed no-firearms affairs.

    Cub Scouts (6-10) still familiarizes younger boys with air rifles. Boy Scouts (11-17) has basic marksmanship training with .22 rifles and small-bore shotguns. Exploring (now a coed, career exploration-only program) for ages 14-20 allows Law Enforcement Explorers to train with all law enforcement firearms under the direction of the law enforcement agency that sponsors them, and Venturing (coed, 14-20 [think old High-Adventure Exploring]) allows those Venture Crews which register with specialties of hunting, Black Powder, historical reenacting, and firearms (any and all) to use firearms appropriate to their special interests. This "graded" approach deals with what BSA determines to be the "age-appropriateness" of the activities. Many here may believe, and rightly so, that their son or daughter is mature enough to start these firearms activities earlier; but since BSA deals with large groups of young people who vary both by age and by maturity level within the same age group, BSA has decided strictly to limit firearms activities to the areas listed above.

    Otherwise, firearms, as in open or concealed carry by Scouters, for example, are prohibited.
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    The BSA is deeply infested with political correctness - and not with me. I disassociated from the BSA over their liquid fuel policy - the boys are prohibited liquid fueled campstoves even though many forests do not allow burning down-wood.

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    Don't believe everything you read.

    I am a Scout Master, and have been associated with Scouting for a very long time.

    I heard this same thought a week or so ago about the time I got back from Scout Camp.

    I was at a BSA Camp

    1. The most popular merit badge there was rifle shooting

    2. All of my Scouts got that merit badge and half got Shot gun shooting as well.

    3. Also offered was black Powder shooting and Pistol shooting.

    4. The man running the shooting range was open carrying any thing from a .44 Magnum to a .22 the whole time we were at camp.

    5.I have NEVER heard or seen anything from BSA that was anti firearms.

    As I said I saw this on another forum and the consensus of that forum was the problem was with the SPONSORING ORGANIZATION and not BSA.

    I think that BSA guide lines are loose enough to allow different groups sponsor troops and enforce the guidelines they want.

    Again I have never been faced with and Anti-Gun situation in scouting.





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    See Section VIII, beginning on page 41 of the linked .pdf file, for the official information:

    http://www.lincolntrailscouncil.org/...feScouting.pdf

    Also see pages 50-51 for what is essentially a non-CCW/OC policy statement (under Prohibited Activities).


    I had forgotten, and hence omitted, that the Boy Scout program does indeed allow black-powder shooting in its program age range.

    I agree that Scouting is not anti-gun, but the program is officially very careful with them.
    If the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.--Samuel Adams as Candidus, Boston Gazette 20 Jan. 1772

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    When you are dealing with 12, 13... and so on boys you have to be careful, and you also have to allow those organizations that sponsor troops to imprint their own particular take on safety.

    All activities, at any BSA facility,with these boys is run to the strictest safety standards, as they must be.

    When Itake boys on such activities as a troop I require 1 adult per boy.

    Being safe and teaching safe principles is imperative.

    The political climate today forces any organization to be careful, but careful is a long way from anti.

    The BSA still conducts organized youth shooting activities, for its members, more often than any other organization that I am aware of.



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    +1, tarzan1888!
    If the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.--Samuel Adams as Candidus, Boston Gazette 20 Jan. 1772

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    Tarzan:

    I realize the BSA as a whole is firearm-friendly, but to ban people from carrying their own personal defensive firearm is dumb.

    If I were to attend a scouting function, being the Eagle Scout and Order of the Arrow member that I am, and were told that I could not carry my pistol with me, i would immediately renounce my affiliation with the BSA, and write many, MANY letters to the area council, and the BSA board explaining why.

    I take this matter VERY seriously because a huge part of my childhood was spent growing up in the Boy Scouts. I have nothing but fond memories of my scouting days, and even have my EagleScout award framed and hanging on my living room wall....THAT is how proud I am of my achievement. To learn that the BSA wouldn't allow one of their own to a function simply because I choose to wear my LEGAL firearm frankly pisses me off. A holstered firearm is not a danger to anyone, and teaches a lesson about the 2nd amendment...which the BSA is supposedly very much in favor of.



    Proof: (I scanned the actual medal)






    Attached Images Attached Images

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    CrashVector wrote:
    Tarzan:

    I realize the BSA as a whole is firearm-friendly, but to ban people from carrying their own personal defensive firearm is dumb.

    If I were to attend a scouting function, being the Eagle Scout and Order of the Arrow member that I am, and were told that I could not carry my pistol with me, i would immediately renounce my affiliation with the BSA, and write many, MANY letters to the area council, and the BSA board explaining why.

    I take this matter VERY seriously because a huge part of my childhood was spent growing up in the Boy Scouts. I have nothing but fond memories of my scouting days, and even have my EagleScout award framed and hanging on my living room wall....THAT is how proud I am of my achievement. To learn that the BSA wouldn't allow one of their own to a function simply because I choose to wear my LEGAL firearm frankly pisses me off. A holstered firearm is not a danger to anyone, and teaches a lesson about the 2nd amendment...which the BSA is supposedly very much in favor of.



    Proof: (I scanned the actual medal)





    Always remember these two things above all others.

    1. The Boy Scout Motto is "Be Prepared". This motto predates ALL other rules and regulations.

    2. There is a reason they call "Concealed Carry", concealed carry.


    I, for one, don't spend a lot of time reading and worrying about all the small stuff. I have a clear goal in mind when it comes to working with the boys.

    Me not sweating the small stuff iscalled "Plausible Deniability"

    Works for me.




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    Sorry for the thread ressurection here, but I don't want to start a new thread to cover the same ground.

    I am deeply saddened to find that for the boy scouts, the second amendment is only a hypothetical right, reserved only for the representatives of the government. That message - that we should be nothing but unarmed subjects, that guns are too dangerous for "mere" citizens - flies in the face of the citizenship that I thought the scouts taught. In fact, that message is more in keeping with the scriblings of such anti-gun luminaries as the Brady Campaign.



    This is so sad for me. The scouts were the first place I was exposed to firearms, and their responsible use and storage. They taught me to live the motto - Be Prepared. They taught me citizenship lessons that I treasured.

    But apparently they are just hypocrites.

    Again - I understand they teach kids about firearms. But their policy that firearms are only for the police means they are hypocrits when it comes to the second amendment.

    I had been looking forward to getting my son involved in scouting in a year or so when he enters first grade. I was looking into making a donation through the Friends of Scouting in my area. Now, at least a little of that money will go to the Virginia Citizen's Defense League. The rest will probably go for camping equipment for my sons and I.

    If I won't spend my money at a store that bans those of us "mere citizens" who carry, why would I give my money and more importantly , my sons, to an organization that does the same?.


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    Huh?

    I have not seen a lot of what is talked about here.

    My Troop went on weekend trips with our rifles - and notes from our parents allowing the person to take us hunting as required by VA law.

    We used liquid fuel every year I went to Philmont. I still use the same cooking stove I used at Philmont all five (5) years that I went.

    I started as a cub scout, advance through every rank, had most of the merit badges, and a Honor Medal With Crossed Palms for rescuing a kid from a grizzly attack and keeping him alive until they could fly him out.

    Is this truly what Boy Scouts have become? Instead of disassociation, I will strive like I do in the State and Federal areas to make changes. The Boy Scouts is an organization worth fighting for. It kept several buddies and me out of a lot of trouble.

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    The BSA is deeply infested with political correctness - and not with me. I disassociated from the BSA over their liquid fuel policy - the boys are prohibited liquid fueled campstoves even though many forests do not allow burning down-wood.
    I don't know when that policy was in effect, but it wasn't applied when I was a Scout (78-ish to 84), and it doesn't seem to apply now. Maybe it's safe to come back.

    http://www.scouting.org/HealthandSaf...icalfuels.aspx

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    CrashVector wrote:
    I've never heard of this, but am HIGHLY interested in hearing from anyone that has witnessed this or has FIRSTHAND knowledge.

    I am an OA EagleScout in the BSA, and was considering writing the area council a letter about this fact.

    The Boy Scouts reguarly has shooting classes, and in the case of summer camps that I attended, had bonafide military scout/snipers teach the classes. Once you attended the class 3 times, and were at least 16 years old, you learned actual combat tactics directly from the snipers themselves.

    Of course, this camp was near Fort Polk, but I find it disgusting that some Boy Scouts functions are being made firearms-free when the very orgainization I belong to organized with the U.S. military in order to teach the older Scouts military sniper tactics.


    In fact, check this out:

    http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=8090869
    Maybe this is just a local thing. The national org. seems to have no problems with shooting activities. Look about 2/3's down the chart.

    http://old.scouting.org/pubs/gss/ageguides.pdf

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    PavePusher wrote:
    CrashVector wrote:
    I've never heard of this, but am HIGHLY interested in hearing from anyone that has witnessed this or has FIRSTHAND knowledge.

    I am an OA EagleScout in the BSA, and was considering writing the area council a letter about this fact.

    The Boy Scouts reguarly has shooting classes, and in the case of summer camps that I attended, had bonafide military scout/snipers teach the classes. Once you attended the class 3 times, and were at least 16 years old, you learned actual combat tactics directly from the snipers themselves.

    Of course, this camp was near Fort Polk, but I find it disgusting that some Boy Scouts functions are being made firearms-free when the very orgainization I belong to organized with the U.S. military in order to teach the older Scouts military sniper tactics.


    In fact, check this out:

    http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=8090869
    Maybe this is just a local thing. The national org. seems to have no problems with shooting activities. Look about 2/3's down the chart.

    http://old.scouting.org/pubs/gss/ageguides.pdf
    Actually they apparently have a BIG problem with it, since they have it in bold on their webpage:


    Except for law enforcement officers required to carry firearms within their jurisdiction, firearms shall not be brought on camping, hiking, backpacking, or other Scouting activities except those specifically planned for target shooting under the supervision of a currently certified BSA or National Rifle Association firearms instructor.




    Added emphasis from the Scouting FAQ:

    Code:
    (Among the purposes of this policy is to prohibit adult leaders from bringing firearms on BSA camping and  hiking activities or to unit meetings.)
    That is the same anti gun policy of many stores and malls, and the same policy sought by the Brady folks - only police can carry unless they are specifically going to a target shoting event.

    No concealed carry for "mere" citizens- much less open carry - at troop or patrol meetings (could include the private homes used for patrol meetings) or anywhere else, except for the police or as part of a planned target shooting event.

    Teaching firearms responsiblity and use but then banning the lawful civilian carry of firearms makes the second amendment a merely hypothetical right.


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    Skeptic wrote: [quote] PavePusher wrote:
    CrashVector wrote:
    I've never heard of this, but am HIGHLY interested in hearing from anyone that has witnessed this or has FIRSTHAND knowledge.

    I am an OA EagleScout in the BSA, and was considering writing the area council a letter about this fact.

    The Boy Scouts reguarly has shooting classes, and in the case of summer camps that I attended, had bonafide military scout/snipers teach the classes. Once you attended the class 3 times, and were at least 16 years old, you learned actual combat tactics directly from the snipers themselves.

    Of course, this camp was near Fort Polk, but I find it disgusting that some Boy Scouts functions are being made firearms-free when the very orgainization I belong to organized with the U.S. military in order to teach the older Scouts military sniper tactics.


    In fact, check this out:

    http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=8090869
    Maybe this is just a local thing. The national org. seems to have no problems with shooting activities. Look about 2/3's down the chart.

    http://old.scouting.org/pubs/gss/ageguides.pdf
    Actually they apparently have a BIG problem with it, since they have it in bold on their webpage:


    Except for law enforcement officers required to carry firearms within their jurisdiction, firearms shall not be brought on camping, hiking, backpacking, or other Scouting activities except those specifically planned for target shooting under the supervision of a currently certified BSA or National Rifle Association firearms instructor.




    Added emphasis from the Scouting FAQ:

    Code:
    (Among the purposes of this policy is to prohibit adult leaders from bringing firearms on BSA camping and  hiking activities or to unit meetings.)
    That is the same anti gun policy of many stores and malls, and the same policy sought by the Brady folks - only police can carry unless they are specifically going to a target shoting event.

    No concealed carry for "mere" citizens- much less open carry - at troop or patrol meetings (could include the private homes used for patrol meetings) or anywhere else, except for the police or as part of a planned target shooting event.

    Teaching firearms responsiblity and use but then banning the lawful civilian carry of firearms makes the second amendment a merely hypothetical right.
    I looked on the BSA home page ( http://www.scouting.org/ ) and several other site pages and don't find that. Link please.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    deepdiver wrote
    I looked on the BSA Home Page ( http://www.scouting.org/ ) and several other site pages and don't find that. Link please
    http://www.scouting.org/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss08.aspx

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    Holy hell that is messed up.

    I was trying to reply to Skeptics last post:

    I looked on the BSA home page ( http://www.scouting.org/ ) and several other site pages and don't find that paragraph regarding firearms that you posted. Link please?
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    G00gling "firearms site:www.scouting.org" got 40 hits

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    Skeptic wrote:
    deepdiver wrote
    I looked on the BSA Home Page ( http://www.scouting.org/ ) and several other site pages and don't find that. Link please
    http://www.scouting.org/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss08.aspx
    Thank you.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    I see they have a "Feedback Form" but no other contact information on their main site. So, I asked for feedback.

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    Pointman wrote:
    Is there something about a trained, tested, state-certified, law-abiding citizen I am unaware of?

    And before someone goes off on me for mentioning anything about a permit and the 2nd Amendment in the same sentence, ask yourself how defensible their position is when all of these safeguards are already in place.
    Ho ho! A fully-infringed citizen, 'trained, tested, certified and abetting!'

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    Skeptic wrote:
    deepdiver wrote
    I looked on the BSA Home Page ( http://www.scouting.org/ ) and several other site pages and don't find that. Link please
    http://www.scouting.org/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss08.aspx
    Aww, heckfire. I looked at that page and missed the second paragraph completely. Now, who's gonna fix the bruise my desk-top put on my forehead, dammit?

    Thanks for the sharp(er) eyes, Skeptic.

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    As an Eagle Scout and past BSA summer camp commissioner its really does disturb me to hear all this. I remember many a camping trips that at least 1 adult had brought a firearm on the trip. Mostly for any late night visitors of the furry nature. But also it was fun to have .22 shooting matches amongst us scouts. It will be a sad day when the BSA closes all firearms activities.
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    Bullbuster wrote:
    As an Eagle Scout and past BSA summer camp commissioner its really does disturb me to hear all this. I remember many a camping trips that at least 1 adult had brought a firearm on the trip. Mostly for any late night visitors of the furry nature. But also it was fun to have .22 shooting matches amongst us scouts. It will be a sad day when the BSA closes all firearms activities.
    Yes, very sad. It brings up several considerations with starting my kids in Scouts.

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    As a Current Scout Committee Member, let me say this.

    National may have some regs in the books to cover their rear ends, but where the rubber meets the road, in the troops, districts and councils, the BSA is still very gun friendly.

    Just thought you would like to know.

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