Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: 18-2-308 Bars and Restaurant

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    The Lower End of NoVa, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    719

    Post imported post

    I have (what I think is) a good question. Although I do not agree with the restaurant / bar ban, I abide by it.

    So what we have is

    No CC in a

    Bar

    Restaurant

    Club --- Night Club, Dance Club, Sports Bar, and places like the Knight of Columbus (I think)

    Question: What if you are at a Nationals Game? They serve beer. What if you go to a show at a Theatre (Like the Paramount Theatre) In C'ville where I think they serve beer and wine. Or a Football game where they serve beer. Can you CC at these venues?



    DC







  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post

    probably, yes.

    The question you must ask is whether they are a restaurant or club.

    Special events and other non-restaurant/club setting are not covered by J3.

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Alexandria, Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,765

    Post imported post

    TEX1N posted this in the Pfitzner Stadium thread. I think this answers your question.

    § 4.1-100
    "Club" means any private nonprofit corporation or association which is the owner, lessee, or occupant of an establishment operated solely for a national, social, patriotic, political, athletic, or other like purpose, but not for pecuniary gain, the advantages of which belong to all of the members. It also means the establishment so operated. A corporation or association shall not lose its status as a club because of the conduct of charitable gaming conducted pursuant to Article 1.1:1 (§ [highlight= rgb(255, 255, 136);]18[/highlight].[highlight= rgb(136, 255, 255);]2[/highlight]-340.15 et seq.) of Chapter 8 of Title [highlight= rgb(255, 255, 136);]18[/highlight].[highlight= rgb(136, 255, 255);]2[/highlight] in which nonmembers participate frequently or in large numbers, provided that no alcoholic beverages are served or consumed in the room where such charitable gaming is being conducted while such gaming is being conducted and that no alcoholic beverages are made available upon the premises to any person who is neither a member nor a bona fide guest of a member.

    "Restaurant" means, for a beer, or wine and beer license or a limited mixed beverage restaurant license, any establishment provided with special space and accommodation, where, in consideration of payment, meals or other foods prepared on the premises are regularly sold.

    "Restaurant" means, for a mixed beverage license other than a limited mixed beverage restaurant license, an established place of business (i) where meals with substantial entrees are regularly sold and (ii) which has adequate facilities and sufficient employees for cooking, preparing, and serving such meals for consumption at tables in dining areas on the premises, and includes establishments specializing in full course meals with a single substantial entree.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    The Lower End of NoVa, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    719

    Post imported post

    Ok - So I have thought about this and still find myself questioning the code.

    No Restaurant ABC licensed -- Got it

    No clubs -- They way I read the definition of club is a non profit organization. The K of C or the VFW would fall in this category. I think they are non profit. And are what is described in 14.1-100 NON-PROFIT

    If so -- ThenCC is OK in a bar room or a dance club that serves alcohol for profit and does not serve food / meals.

    The baseball / football thing I think I get. But, I'm still not sure because they could hold a restaurant license.

    It can be confusing

    DC


  5. #5
    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Dale City, VA, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,694

    Post imported post

    You expect them to make it easy, like saying "if there is a license to serve alcohol for consumption on premises", period?

  6. #6
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,448

    Post imported post

    DeadCenter
    If so -- ThenCC is OK in a bar room or a dance club that serves alcohol for profit and does not serve food / meals
    But remember that in VA there are no bars, only restaurants that serve alcohol. Every "bar" is actually a restaurant in disguise.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    The Lower End of NoVa, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    719

    Post imported post

    paramedic70002 wrote:
    DeadCenter
    If so -- ThenCC is OK in a bar room or a dance club that serves alcohol for profit and does not serve food / meals
    But remember that in VA there are no bars, only restaurants that serve alcohol. Every "bar" is actually a restaurant in disguise.
    Yes --- I found that out later today from a customer of mine.In other states you will find just bar rooms. -DC

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Ft. Belvoir/Alexandria, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    16

    Post imported post

    Can't wait until I retire and headfrom NoVa back to Louisiana. Bar - no, restaurant - yes, you just can't drink if carrying. Like it that way.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Mag-bayonettes!, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,407

    Post imported post

    Conaso wrote:
    Can't wait until I retire and head*from NoVa back to Louisiana.* Bar - no, restaurant - yes, you just can't drink if carrying.* Like it that way.
    Something about LA doesn't sit right with me...

    -Unrequited

  10. #10
    State Researcher dng's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    , , USA
    Posts
    1,290

    Post imported post

    I have an idea: let's take the dirt Washington DC sits on, which is an absolute waste of earth, and fill up New Orleans.That maystill be wasting the dirt, but at least it wouldn't be as big of a waste. Plus we would get rid of80 percent (estimate, not scientificfact ) of the problems in our country by getting rid of DC, so I think it would be a win-win....

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Arlington, ,
    Posts
    46

    Post imported post

    That's exactly what makes New Orleans so great. On paper it's got crappy schools, high crime, bad streets, corrupt government, high insurance costs, and not exactly the most "gun friendly" politicians, in Orleans Parish anyway(though no one ever points out the fact that Nagin is the opposite of Mike Bloomburg - he's a pro-business Republican who switched to the Democratic Party for political expediency; if you look at his record, especially pre-Katrina, he was about the best a conservative like me could hope for in the Mayor's office).

    And oh yeah - that below-sea-level thing (though, for what it's worth, the section bisected by the graphic below doesn't get the higher elevation areas - basically the areas hugging the river from the "A" all the way to the western edge of the map).

    And all that being said, I'd still give my left nut to be able to move back. And so would almost anyone who's ever lived there. Find another place, anywhere, that you can say that about.

    PS - Another "For What it's Worth" - Louisiana's more than just New Orleans; Conasco never said he was from NO.

    unrequited wrote:
    Conaso wrote:
    Can't wait until I retire and headfrom NoVa back to Louisiana. Bar - no, restaurant - yes, you just can't drink if carrying. Like it that way.
    Something about LA doesn't sit right with me...


  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    unrequited wrote:
    Conaso wrote:
    Can't wait until I retire and headfrom NoVa back to Louisiana. Bar - no, restaurant - yes, you just can't drink if carrying. Like it that way.
    Something about LA doesn't sit right with me...
    Are you kidding me!!! Is that elevation diagram for real????

    There is no way in hell I would live in the bottom of that lake waiting to be made!

    The lake is created and my gun safe gets flooded. Then my silica gel is useless and my guns get rusted out!

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Arlington, ,
    Posts
    46

    Post imported post

    Short answer - yes. Though as I said before, the part of town that was "disected" to get that diagram is low ground.

    The parts of the city that were originally settled - the French Quarter, the Faubourg Marigny, and pretty much all of Uptown on the river side of St. Charles - didn't flood. Even during Katrina.

    If you visit as a tourist, the hotels you'll stay in and the bars you'll drink in didn't flood.

    The city of New Orleans is one of the oldest in the country (the region was settled in 1699, what is currently New Orleans in 1718). Most of the city doesn't flood regularly, as a general rule. Those that don't live there don't/haven't lived there don't know what they're missing.

    As I said before, New Orleans is, on paper, one of the most miserable places in the country. There's a reason that the vast majority of the people that can move back have moved back. And it's not because of the high pay or the robust job market (note sarcasm). Find me another place with a holiday, celebrated by EVERYONE in town, dedicated to giving children the time of their lives,sitting in the middle of the street, catching up with friends old and new, drinking, eating (that'd be Mardi Gras, despite what late night ads on cable TV might have you believe. Bourbon street is 6 blocks of debauchery. The average Mardi Gras Parade route is 5 miles or more. Lined by locals, and a few tourists, who want nothing more than a night of family fun).

    PS - just keep your guns upstairs - they're more accessible that way anyhow. Even the most heavily flooded areas didn't takewater past the first floor.



    LEO 229 wrote:
    unrequited wrote:
    Conaso wrote:
    Can't wait until I retire and headfrom NoVa back to Louisiana. Bar - no, restaurant - yes, you just can't drink if carrying. Like it that way.
    Something about LA doesn't sit right with me...
    Are you kidding me!!! Is that elevation diagram for real????

    There is no way in hell I would live in the bottom of that lake waiting to be made!

    The lake is created and my gun safe gets flooded. Then my silica gel is useless and my guns get rusted out!

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,315

    Post imported post

    LEO 229 wrote:
    ...SNIP
    Are you kidding me!!!* Is that elevation diagram for real????

    There is no way in hell I would live in the bottom of that lake waiting to be made!

    The lake is created and my gun safe gets flooded. Then my silica gel is useless and my guns get rusted out!
    Well yeah! That is why Katrina caused such a problem. Even when they manage to keep most of the place dry enough to walk around, you still have to bury people above ground, because if you stick a shovel in the ground you hit water.

    In fact one of the problems in the aftermath of the hurricane was all the dead bodies that surfaced from cemeteries. They are still trying to match people up with the crypts they floated out of in the flooding.

    At this point it would be cheaper for the government to just buy the entire place and move the city inland. But that is not the politically correct answer.

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    jbobmurph wrote:
    PS - just keep your guns upstairs - they're more accessible that way anyhow. Even the most heavily flooded areas didn't takewater past the first floor.
    I cannot haul that 1800 pound safe up the steps... It took three guys 2.5 hours just to bring it in the house on the first floor.



  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Mag-bayonettes!, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,407

    Post imported post

    Hawkflyer wrote:
    In fact one of the problems in the aftermath of the hurricane was all the dead bodies that surfaced from cemeteries. They are still trying to match people up with the crypts they floated out of in the flooding.
    Seriously that's sad and really sick.

    Jokingly... I'm glad I've got my .45 and enough rounds to take on the zombie horde.

    Yeah LEO, that's a pretty scary picture, saw it in my newspaper awhile back, and then again on wiki a couple weeks ago.
    -Unrequited

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    unrequited wrote:
    Hawkflyer wrote:
    In fact one of the problems in the aftermath of the hurricane was all the dead bodies that surfaced from cemeteries. They are still trying to match people up with the crypts they floated out of in the flooding.
    Seriously that's sad and really sick.

    Jokingly... I'm glad I've got my .45 and enough rounds to take on the zombie horde.

    Yeah LEO, that's a pretty scary picture, saw it in my newspaper awhile back, and then again on wiki a couple weeks ago.
    Be sure to carry at least 4 magazines since you do not know how many zombies you may encounter here in Virginia.

  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,315

    Post imported post

    unrequited wrote:
    Hawkflyer wrote:
    In fact one of the problems in the aftermath of the hurricane was all the dead bodies that surfaced from cemeteries. They are still trying to match people up with the crypts they floated out of in the flooding.
    Seriously that's sad and really sick.

    Jokingly... I'm glad I've got my .45 and enough rounds to take on the zombie horde.

    Yeah LEO, that's a pretty scary picture, saw it in my newspaper awhile back, and then again on wiki a couple weeks ago.
    Sorry about that, but I am not kidding and meant no disrespect to the dead or their families. I sometimes forget that people that are not used to this stuff might get a bit squeamish or uncomfortable with the subject. Having to deal with that kind of stuff has desensitized me a bit.

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Arlington, ,
    Posts
    46

    Post imported post

    Complete and total falsehood. Despite what some guy in a cape likes to say when he charges tourists $20 to go on a "ghost" tour of a cemetary and/or the Vieux Carre, the above ground crypts exist because of land scarcity, not the water table. They generally only exist in the areas that were developed early on - put simply, with an above ground crypt, you can put an infinite # of deceased in the same space that one person takes up when you bury below the ground.

    Amongst other places (and you can tell by glancing at the satellite view on google maps), there's a below ground cemetery at Pitt and Arabella http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...;z=19&om=1

    Compare to an above ground one at Washington and Prytania
    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...;z=19&om=1

    For every above ground cemetary in NO, I can take you to two below ground ones. And actually, the below ground cemeteries tend to be in more newly developed areas (and as I noted in a previous comment, the newly developed areas are at the lowest elevations - the originally developed neighborhoods are actually in many cases at or above sea level).

    And there actually wasn't much if any problem with bodies popping up - I remember hearing of one cemetery down in St. Bernard where a few newly buried (note I said buried, as in below ground, not interred, as in above ground) bodies popped up. Plus one or two in Mississippi. Certainly not a large scale problem.

    Hawkflyer wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    ...SNIP
    Are you kidding me!!! Is that elevation diagram for real????

    There is no way in hell I would live in the bottom of that lake waiting to be made!

    The lake is created and my gun safe gets flooded. Then my silica gel is useless and my guns get rusted out!
    Well yeah! That is why Katrina caused such a problem. Even when they manage to keep most of the place dry enough to walk around, you still have to bury people above ground, because if you stick a shovel in the ground you hit water.

    In fact one of the problems in the aftermath of the hurricane was all the dead bodies that surfaced from cemeteries. They are still trying to match people up with the crypts they floated out of in the flooding.

    At this point it would be cheaper for the government to just buy the entire place and move the city inland. But that is not the politically correct answer.

    Regards

  20. #20
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,315

    Post imported post

    Sorry but I did not "read" about them, I am working to help identify them, and there are more than just a few. Moreover, a lot of them are NOT "fresh".

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Arlington, ,
    Posts
    46

    Post imported post

    The fact that you're unfamiliar with how the dead are buried in South Louisiana notwithstanding, the fact of the matter is that this isn't a problem unique to Louisiana. Any time there's any significant amount of flooding anywhere, a few bodies pop up.

    That being said, I know what you're doing to return a loved one to his/her family is appreciated, and so I thank you on behalf of those who haven't.

    The fact remains, though, that here and elsewhere, yourself and others contribute, generally inadvertently, to the notion that New Orleans/South Louisiana is some corrupt, violent, dangerous, disease ridden, third world backwater.

    When the fact of the matter is that Louisiana politicians are no more or less corrupt than politicians in any other town in the country, the average law abiding citizen faces less of a risk of violent crime than most other large cities (all the violent crime and the vast majority of the non-violent crime, pretty much every instance of which makes the national news, is both confined to certain neighborhoods - think Anacostia, eg - and confined to certain elements - think your friendly neighborhood crack dealer shooting someone else's friendly neighborhood crack dealer). And as long as I keep my kids out of the government schools (I don't see anyone here rushing to put their kids into city schools in DC, etc) I can get my kid a quality education (some of the top private schools in the country are in New Orleans) at a reasonable price. And because so many of your neighbors send their kids to private school too, school taxes are low and competition is prevalent.

    The fact of the matter is that, for some reason, people who've never lived there, and in many cases never been there (visiting for a convention and getting drunk on Bourbon street where you're able to get that hot co-worker to flash her breasts and then subsequently hook up with her doesn't count) think it's okay to deride the region. I don't consider it fair for me to deride any other place that's suffered a debilitating natural disaster that I've never been to and am completely unfamiliar with. Why is it then okay to do that with New Orleans?

    I know no one reading this is ever going to live there - and I don't really care. I do really hope some of you will visit (and I hope you'll stay away from Bourbon Street and the Vieux Carre the entire time; if you need recommendations of restaurants, jazz joints, Bed & Breakfasts outside of the French Quarter, I or others will be happy to provide them).

    And I do really hope you all do your best to refrain from criticizing a place that, to be completely frank, you don't know anything about.

    Hawkflyer wrote:
    Sorry but I did not "read" about them, I am working to help identify them, and there are more than just a few. Moreover, a lot of them are NOT "fresh".

    Regards

  22. #22
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,315

    Post imported post

    jbobmurph wrote:
    ...SNIP

    When the fact of the matter is that Louisiana politicians are no more or less corrupt than politicians in any other town in the country, the average law abiding citizen faces less of a risk of violent crime than most other large cities (all the violent crime and the vast majority of the non-violent crime, pretty much every instance of which makes the national news, is both confined to certain neighborhoods - think Anacostia, eg - and confined to certain elements - think your friendly neighborhood crack dealer shooting someone else's friendly neighborhood crack dealer).SNIP...
    I have no desire or cause to argue with you at all, but I think you are being a little unfair.

    I have made no comments at all about the politics, or crime rates in the area. And while it is an interesting city, and area in general (yes I have been there a number of times, before and since Katrinia), like many areas it has problems. While I do not believe I have said anything that could be considered an attack, I have recognized that much of the area is below sea level. That is just a fact, and it is getting worse. You don't have to stand looking up at the top of some of the levees very long, or even hear the pumps to see the problem.

    To protect the lives and property of the area from future disasters, it would be better and less expensive in the long run to move to higher ground. The same can be said of many coastal areas in this country, so I think that is a fair statement, and is not derisive of the area.

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •