Scenario: What would you do?

imported post

***You can selectmultiple answers in this poll***



You're OCing at a privateresidence...a party. You've been there for an hour and have been visiting with family and some of their friends.Everything is fine.You're on the back patio enjoying conversation, good eats and good cheer. You have your SIG 229 in a Serpa hoster on your right hip. You have 1 spare mag on your weak side. The kids have finally stopped asking you about the gun.

There are children and adults at the party. Your uncle is there with his wife. A couple of nephews under 10 years old. Some friends of your uncle are there, a professional couple, he a financial analyst, she a librarian. You notice some other kids there, including a 14 year old girl with long curly hair. That's Caroline. She's a sophomore at a close-by public high school. She wears wire rim glasses and she is very polite. She is a daughter of one of your uncle's friends.

Good vittles! Cheese, wine (Château Malescot St.-Exupéry--a bit too light, but quite resonant), crackers, canapes, the works. It was catered. It's late afternoon. Plenty of daylight left...

You're facing the back of the house, away from the backyard fence, talking to the librarian when you hear the scream...

Ahooded man had slid in through an open gate and put the barrel of a handgun (Glock! Maybe a 23. Or 19.) to the head of Caroline. She is red-eyed and shrieking, holding her hands up to her head.The women and other kids start yelling. You turn around and hear the guy say, "Give me your money, or I'll start shooting!"

What do you do?

***You can selectmultiple answers in this poll***

imported post

I want a choice somewhere along the lines of I want to keep my gun side in the other direction and wait for him to compromise his position first. I would only start shooting when I thought he was about ready to fire or there was more room between the girl and the BG.

imported post

The big question is "Can he see me clearly or not...and can I get around behind him without being seen. Too many If's for a definitive answer. I definitely wouldn't try to escalate the encointer, unless I had no choice, then all hell breaks loose

imported post

Impossible to answer without being there.
If force on force has taught me anything it is that.

imported post

Pa. Patriot wrote:

Impossible to answer without being there.

Click to expand...

But not impossible to think about the variables, forces and dynamics of the situation. To think that not thinking about what the scenario can teach you is a poor choice.

Scenarios are not really about answers. They're about understanding dynamicsand potentialities. And constraints.

imported post

You posted a poll and asked for answers.

What do you do?

Click to expand...

***You can select multiple answers in this poll***

Click to expand...

There are none.

If you wanted to discuss variables you should have posted a poll about variables.

imported post

Pa. Patriot wrote:

You posted a poll and asked for answers.

What do you do?

Click to expand...

***You can select multiple answers in this poll***

Click to expand...

There are none.

If you wanted to discuss variables you should have posted a poll about variables.

Click to expand...

Jes' a method to get some discussion going.

Real scenario exercises are very extensive. Way too much for an informal forum. People who enter in such exercises, when well done, are pretty much forced to think. Especially of things they ordinarily refuse to think about it.

They're very difficult to do. Especially when one:

a) knows all the answers, or

b) knows there are no answers.

imported post

My wife and children know the answer to this one (and agree with it). The badguy is going down. Someone holding a gun to a child's head is a threat of the highest order and must be stopped - NOW!

LoveMyCountry

imported post

LoveMyCountry wrote:

My wife and children know the answer to this one (and agree with it). The badguy is going down. Someone holding a gun to a child's head is a threat of the highest order and must be stopped - NOW!

Click to expand...

What if he shoots the kid in the head?

What if it's not your kid?

imported post

Don't pick #9, it's a trap!

Seriously, you try too hard, it's borderline pathetic. You need a new hobby.

imported post

HankT wrote:

LoveMyCountry wrote:

My wife and children know the answer to this one (and agree with it). The badguy is going down. Someone holding a gun to a child's head is a threat of the highest order and must be stopped - NOW!

Click to expand...

What if he shoots the kid in the head?

What if it's not your kid?

Click to expand...

What if it was you, would you want someone to help? Just for argument's sake.

imported post

HankT wrote:

LoveMyCountry wrote:

My wife and children know the answer to this one (and agree with it). The badguy is going down. Someone holding a gun to a child's head is a threat of the highest order and must be stopped - NOW!

Click to expand...

What if he shoots the kid in the head?

What if  it's not your kid?

Click to expand...

Then he's a child killer who must be stopped. It doesn't matter if it's my child or not. If I am the only one able to do something to stop him, I am the only one to make that decision. How could you not defend the child? Would you let a wild animal keep chewing on a kid just because he was from down the street? If your kids were in the car with you when you saw a child being abducted would you ignore it because your kids were safe?

The longer you wait, the more power the attacker has over his victims. End the threat NOW!

LoveMyCountry

imported post

I would attempt to engage him in conversation about his childhood to see if we could determine the life experiences that have led him down the criminal path. I would then suggest a group hug for all present and wish the robber well as he departs, encouraging him to get the therapy he needs to turn his life around. Why would I do all of this????? To make HankT proud !!!

imported post

Offer him some wine, of course. No need to go to extremes.

I don't know. Since there are so many people there, the main reason for killing a victim (no witness, no 911) is eliminated; he can't kill everyone. It's looking like a robbery. Therefore, I would be inclined to keep my eyes open and wait for an opportunity.

imported post

Armed4Life wrote:

I would attempt to engage him in conversation about his childhood to see if we could determine the life experiences that have led him down the criminal path. I would then suggest a group hug for all present and wish the robber well as he departs, encouraging him to get the therapy he needs to turn his life around. Why would I do all of this????? To make HankT proud !!!

Click to expand...

That's funny , I saw that "real" news story as well...I think about two or three weeks ago. "Burglar wined, dined, and hugged...then left peacefully...no one injured."

In this hypothetical case however, the instant someone puts themselves in the position to threaten another's life, then their own well being comes into question.

imported post

HankT wrote:

LoveMyCountry wrote:

My wife and children know the answer to this one (and agree with it). The badguy is going down. Someone holding a gun to a child's head is a threat of the highest order and must be stopped - NOW!

Click to expand...

What if he shoots the kid in the head?

What if it's not your kid?

Click to expand...

Are you searching for emotional responses like, "Yeah, I'd definitely kill that SOB after he shot a kid" or something along those lines? The scenario started out at least somewhat on the level, but these are silly, immaturequestions seeking replies from which you cantake to wherever you're trying to take this. Your scenario is a crap situation and someone may or may not be injured...maybe you've never experienced someone else injured, in pain,dead, or dying...whatever. Maybe you read too much Internet news...who knows.

Join your local volunteer fire department, ride along with EMT's for a weekend in a busy city, join the military and carry your butt to a foreign shit hole to gain an understanding of what it means to see people die before you try and draw out someone to statethat itmay be their intent to kill another based on your scenario. Duh, yeah, everyone wants to be the hero and take the head shot that saves the kid...that would make for cool conversation, maybe a made-for-TV movie and possibly satisfy the intent of this thread.

imported post

Bravo e6t. Bravo.

imported post

You do just what they did in that movie Speed. Shoot the hostage in the leg, duh!!!

imported post

10, 3, 2 and 6 in that order.

Sudden moves will likely aggravate the situation.

Not checking for other BGs is stupid unless your actually being shot at right then.

If the pistol is obviously a black painted air-soft ora BB gun you have more options. If you can't tell, acting rashly will definately get someone shot or killed.

If you draw and shoot you had better be faster than the BGs finger and more accurate than a movie cowboy, because the kid will die aand you will have caused it by either making the BG shoot the kid or you shooting her by accident.

All that being said, IF the BG is alone ( or the other BGs are near the main BG) andIF there was a DEFINATE opening to shoot and IF you have a CLEAR shot and IF no one is near you (no need to introduce innocent bystanders to bullets), take it.

But, this is just my opinion.

imported post

Since this situation's variables were left open to interpretation...

I assume the guy hasn't noticed I'm armed (or he probably would have already shot me), I assume the guy is distracted/looking around at the other guests, I assume the guy has his back to something safe to shoot in the direction of (like a brick wall), etc.

The brain is an amazing at collecting and analyzing situational information subconsciously. The choice to shoot would be based on this instinctual analysis. When seconds count, it's the best tool you have.

Part of this "situational information" includes "microexpressions." I read an article on this once in Reader's Digest where they did studies of facial expressions people exhibit for fractions of a second before masking them to hide fear, anger, etc. If you're looking, your brain will pick up on this, and will give you some insight into the person's state of mind and intentions.

So, with these assumptions and processing occurring, I would say any of your poll "answers" could be correct, depending on the variables not defined in your OP.