Newbie Help

freakgus · Aug 3, 2007

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I've tried looking for OC laws is WA both here and other places on the web but keep getting lost. I just moved here from AZ where EVERYONE OC's and I don't see anyone here do it. 1 is it allowed? 2 Is it true firearms are not allowed in bars in WA? website or resposne would be awesome, sorry if these questions have allowed been asked and answered. Thanx

GreatWhiteLlama · Aug 3, 2007

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Welcome aboard freakgus

1) Yes.

2) True. They are not allowed in bars or any other location that requires you to be 21 or over.

Gray Peterson · Aug 3, 2007

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freakgus:

Feel free to contact me via PM. Can you give more specifics as to your exact location?

freakgus · Aug 3, 2007

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I'm in Lakewood/Tacoma area and ride my Harley everywhere. Everywhere I've gone today I've gotten weird looks about my weapon.

gregma · Aug 3, 2007

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Welcome to WA! Adding to what Lonnie said, there are no laws against carrying a firearm openly in WA state, thus it is legal. There are however some areas where the police aren't so receptive to it's minions excersizing their right so you would have to be more careful there. Lonnie should be able to hook you up with the most accurate current information!
Stick around and enjoy the show and look forward to seeing you OC'ing!

Also as to your #2. A little more specific information. Anywhere that is posted as being restricted to those over the age of 21 carrying a firearm is forbidden.

RCW 9.41.300 says:

(1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:
.
.
.
(d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; or

wqbang · Aug 3, 2007

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I would recommend stopping by most any gunshop and picking up a copy of Dave Workman's book:

Washington Gun Rights and Responsibilities

http://www.danddgunleather.com/pages/washington_gun_rights.htm

nathan · Aug 3, 2007

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Does that mean I can't OC in a liquor store? I see people in there with kids sometimes, but I think there is a sign on the door saying no one under 21 allowed... ??

gregma · Aug 3, 2007

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nathan wrote:

Does that mean I can't OC in a liquor store? I see people in there with kids sometimes, but I think there is a sign on the door saying no one under 21 allowed... ??

You know, I never really thought about that. I guess if a liquor store has been"classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age" then yes, it would be unlawful to enter with a weapon.
To be honest though, I haven't been in a liquor store in probably 20 years, so I wouldn't even know what the sign says. I'll see if I can find an RCW specific to that.

just_a_car · Aug 3, 2007

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nathan wrote:

Does that mean I can't OC in a liquor store? I see people in there with kids sometimes, but I think there is a sign on the door saying no one under 21 allowed... ??

Yes, that is correct. It has the same "No Minors" WA State Liquor Control Board sign at the entrance as bars do. If people had kids in there, they were in violation of the law. I have had to disarm in my car prior to entering to get some vodka for a party (to which I did not bring my gun, as guns and alcohol do NOT mix).

joshmmm · Aug 3, 2007

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just_a_car wrote:

nathan wrote:

Does that mean I can't OC in a liquor store? I see people in there with kids sometimes, but I think there is a sign on the door saying no one under 21 allowed... ??

Click to expand...

Yes, that is correct. It has the same "No Minors" WA State Liquor Control Board sign at the entrance as bars do. If people had kids in there, they were in violation of the law. I have had to disarm in my car prior to entering to get some vodka for a party (to which I did not bring my gun, as guns and alcohol do NOT mix).

I would disagree. I have seen signs on many liquor stores stating that all persons in a group must be 21 unless with their parents.

Additionally, RCW 66.44.310 states that it is the liquor control board's duty to license "(2) The Washington state liquor control board shall have the power and it shall be its duty to classify licensed premises or portions of licensed premises as off-limits to persons under the age of twenty-one years of age." (emphasis added)

Here they are talking about licensed premises. Typically, license premises means a place where liquor can be consumed on-site---nobody would think of the local QFC as a licensed premise.

Furthermore, there is nothing in the RCW or WAC (so far as I can find) stating the the liquor store is off limits to persons under 21. I assume the no people in a group under 21 sign is to avoid selling to a person who is likely to just pass it along (sort of a like a string sale of a weapon).

just_a_car · Aug 3, 2007

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Well, josh, since we're in disagreement, I'll concede to wait until I get a chance to actually see and read the sign at my local liquor store. Heck, I'll even try to get a picture so we can clarify this question. If there's anything on the sign about the State Liquor Control Board and it being off-limits to persons under 21, though, I'd have to think that it would then be off limits to Carry in all forms.

compmanio365 · Aug 3, 2007

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Hey there! I used to live in Lakewood, and have since been moving further east; now I am on the edge of Tacoma, actually in Pierce County just outside of city limits on the Indian reservation. I never carried in Lakewood, since I was not 21 when I lived there, but from what I have heardbe ready to defend your OC if you are confronted by Lakewood PD. Tacoma PD was also harassing OCers, but hopefully this has by and large been taken care of. At least we have not heard of any more incidents involving Mainsail.....

Locate the training bulletins, I know they are posted on the forum somewhere to download and print out, but I'm not sure exactly where; carry these with you to refer to if you do end up having to defend yourself to an agressive LEO that isn't as educated in the law as we would like them to be. Remember that you are in full view of the public, and when OCing, you are making an impression on the people, good or bad, that have the power to call for more or less gun control based largely on how legal gun owners such as us act when armed.

Hope to see you out there, and hopefully you can join us for our next OC gathering!

gregma · Aug 3, 2007

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just_a_car wrote:

Well, josh, since we're in disagreement, I'll concede to wait until I get a chance to actually see and read the sign at my local liquor store. Heck, I'll even try to get a picture so we can clarify this question. If there's anything on the sign about the State Liquor Control Board and it being off-limits to persons under 21, though, I'd have to think that it would then be off limits to Carry in all forms.

I fear we have badly taken this way off-topic, and I'm partly to blame! Can we continue this discussion in a different thread? I'll go ahead and start it.

thebastidge · Aug 4, 2007

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"I'm in Lakewood/Tacoma area and ride my Harley everywhere."

Freakgus:

RCW 9.41.050

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

I would assume that "in any vehicle " includes "on any vehicle". If you don't have a CPL, then don't ride your scooter strapped. Yes, I know it's retarded.

gregma · Aug 4, 2007

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thebastidge wrote:

I would assume that "in any vehicle " includes "on any vehicle". If you don't have a CPL, then don't ride your scooter strapped. Yes, I know it's retarded.

And the *only* thing keeping WA from getting a gold OC status. :X

GreatWhiteLlama · Aug 4, 2007

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thebastidge wrote:

"I'm in Lakewood/Tacoma area and ride my Harley everywhere."

Freakgus:

RCW 9.41.050

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

I would assume that "in any vehicle " includes "on any vehicle". If you don't have a CPL, then don't ride your scooter strapped. Yes, I know it's retarded.

Actually bastidge, in and on are two completely different things. Subsections (ii) and (iii) go as far as to emphasize "within the vehicle".

Unless the motorcycle has saddle bags, there wouldn't even be any place to put a firearm within anyplace on most bikes (some have compartments under the seats).

I could be wrong but if you read this to the letter, it seems fairly clear to me and I don't think it would be difficult to argue this in court.

cut_cutta · Aug 4, 2007

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I agree with T-Rav. "In" and "On" are completely different. From my understanding, the reason that carrying a weapon in a car is illegal in this state without a CPL is because the car conceals the gun. When you are in the car, with a gun on your person, people can't see it. In an effect, you have a pistol concealed by metal, instead of clothing. On a motor cycle, you are still open carrying, in plain view, concealing nothing. That's my take on the law, lord knows a law enforcement officer and stupid prosecuting attorney might have a different take on the matter.

thebastidge · Aug 5, 2007

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Good points, guys. I'd say unless and until someone is willing to test it in court, I wouldn't do it. Just trying to put the info out there and you can all make your own decisions.

I know I didn't realize this was againast the law until not that long ago. It's a stupid law, and counter-intuitive, especially given differences with most other states.

freakgus · Aug 5, 2007

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What is the process for getting a CWP?

John Hardin · Aug 5, 2007

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freakgus wrote:

What is the process for getting a CWP?

Find out where your local sheriff's office is.
Call them and ask what days they accept CCW license applications. They may not do so every day of the week.
Go in on that day with a checkbook.
Fill out the application, get fingerprinted, write a check for $60
Wait a week or two. If you pass the background checks, they'll mail it to you.
Cut it out and put it in your wallet. I laminated mine into a bag tag holder at Kinko's, it fits perfectly.

Pretty simple.

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