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Thread: Is it legal to carry in a WA State liquor store?

  1. #1
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    Per the RCW:

    RCW 9.41.300 says:

    (1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:
    .
    .
    .
    (d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; or

    There have been reports of signs being posted on liquor stores forbidding those under 21, so does it meet 9.41.300? I haven't been in a liquor store for some 20+ years, so I am of little help.

    I did search the RCW and I did search the Liquor Control Board rules and can find nothing specific. Anyone have the scoop?

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    My understanding is that it's not legal. You can not legally be in a liquor store if you are under 21, so it's off limits for firearms. I think that liquor stores were part of the reason why the legislation was written, to prevent robberies... but like a "no firearms sign" is gonna keep a criminal from holding up the place.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    I'll do a little more research. However, the problem here is that it says "off limits to under 21's". IIRC, the signs state: You must be 21 or over or with a parent.

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    Hold that thought. I am driving up the road to see if the brand new one has a sign posted.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    OK the sign says that you must be 21 or over or a child accompanied by a parent. To me this would mean that the liquor board has declared them off limits to persons under 21.

    I think the reason they let kids with a parent in the store stems from thsi RCW;

    9.91.060

    P.S. Thanks for giving me a reason to go to the liquor store gregma.

    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    This is a strange interpretation of the law, and a bit of a reach.

    Again, the laws says "Off Limits to under 21". It doesn't say "Off limits to under 21 except for children with their parents".

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    I went to the liquor store last saturday, OC'ing of course, didn't see any signs saying no guns and nobody said anything...

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    Lonnie Wilson wrote:
    This is a strange interpretation of the law, and a bit of a reach.

    Again, the laws says "Off Limits to under 21". It doesn't say "Off limits to under 21 except for children with their parents".
    It's not strange intrepretation or a reach. The sign says that you must be 21 to enter the premises.....That is dictated by the liquor board. The law does not say that there cannot be exceptions to the under 21 rule made by the board. I can almost guarantee that charges under these circumstances will stick and a conviction will be made.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    DrewGunner wrote:
    I went to the liquor store last saturday, OC'ing of course, didn't see any signs saying no guns and nobody said anything...
    The signs do not have to say "no guns". They simply must be a sign from the liquor board stating that it is off limits to persons under 21.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    I completely agree with Lonnie's take on this (of course, that was my take from the earlier thread)...

    IIRC the sign doesn't even say off limits. The sign says all persons in a group.

    Clearly, if they allow children with parents it is a VERY different situation than a bar... have you ever seen a parent bring their child into a bar and tell the bouncer/bartender that it is ok? of course not.

    We can also think about it logically--the state has an interest in keeping drunk people seperate from guns. 99% (pulling number out of nowhere other than reasonable observation)of people in a liquor store are sober. Nobody is hanging out in a liquor store. There is no need to restrict guns in a liquor store.

    I also do not think they even limit access to liquor stores... they only restrict the sale of liquor to people under 21 or they would start carding at the door.

    I would think the only way we will get a final resolution to this is to either write to the direct of WA LCB or to somehow get the WA AG to write an opinion.

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    I still disagree. People under 21 are allowed in bars if they work there or are passing through. This tells me that every place in Wa. that sells alcohol is not truly off limits to person under 21 if I use your rational.

    It may also appear that we have different signage at the different stores. The one I just went to did not talk about groups, I have never read one that said that. It was worded towards individuals.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Joerocket says: "I think the reason they let kids with a parent in the store stems from thsi RCW;

    9.91.060"

    However the statues says:



    "Every person having the care and custody, whether temporary or permanent, of minor children under the age of twelve years, who shall leave such children in a parked automobile unattended by an adult while such person enters a tavern or other premises where vinous, spirituous, or malt liquors are dispensed for consumption on the premises shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor."

    {emphasis added}

    Liquor stores do not dispense beverages for on-premise consumption.




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    thebastidge wrote:
    Joerocket says: "I think the reason they let kids with a parent in the store stems from thsi RCW;

    9.91.060"

    However the statues says:



    "Every person having the care and custody, whether temporary or permanent, of minor children under the age of twelve years, who shall leave such children in a parked automobile unattended by an adult while such person enters a tavern or other premises where vinous, spirituous, or malt liquors are dispensed for consumption on the premises shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor."

    {emphasis added}

    Liquor stores do not dispense beverages for on-premise consumption.



    Oh man. It used to state liquor store in there also. Hmmmm I give up on this one.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Personally I'd err on the side of caution. No reason to get a misdomenor. Or at least just conceal it till you're out.

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    Just to be safe, I wouldn't personally open carry into a liqour store. I don't want to be the one that the case law is based on

    I know this is the worst thing to say on an OC board, but: "It's just asking for trouble".




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    joshmmm wrote:
    Clearly, if they allow children with parents it is a VERY different situation than a bar... have you ever seen a parent bring their child into a bar and tell the bouncer/bartender that it is ok? of course not.
    This is funny, growing up in Wyoming seeing minors (accompanied) was never a big deal. Live here for 20 yrs and go to Texas where I saw minors in the bars, it is kind of odd at first.
    I think you're right about the dispensing/consupmtion, the liquor store allows minors under 21...I personally wouldnt want to test it though.

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    I know this is bringing things back from the dead, but in RCW 9.41.300 the wording sounds like anywhere the liquor control board classifies as off limits to people under 21 are on the prohibited list, which I would assume to include liquor stores.

    I don't know that i'd want to test that one out.



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    slugsgomoo wrote:
    I know this is bringing things back from the dead, but in RCW 9.41.300 the wording sounds like anywhere the liquor control board classifies as off limits to people under 21 are on the prohibited list, which I would assume to include liquor stores.

    I don't know that i'd want to test that one out.

    You have completely missed the point of this whole thread. We all know what 9.41.300 says.

    The entire debate is whether or not the liquor control board has classified the liquor store as off limits.

    Back to that point--I checked the other day and indeed there was a sign saying minors were only permitted with parents and it had a number on it making it look official--not just printed by the local manager...

    so, we really don't know still... no definitive answer has yet been found on whether a liquor store allowspeople under 21 to enter "officially".

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    joshmmm wrote:
    slugsgomoo wrote:
    I know this is bringing things back from the dead, but in RCW 9.41.300 the wording sounds like anywhere the liquor control board classifies as off limits to people under 21 are on the prohibited list, which I would assume to include liquor stores.

    I don't know that i'd want to test that one out.

    You have completely missed the point of this whole thread. We all know what 9.41.300 says.

    The entire debate is whether or not the liquor control board has classified the liquor store as off limits.

    Back to that point--I checked the other day and indeed there was a sign saying minors were only permitted with parents and it had a number on it making it look official--not just printed by the local manager...

    so, we really don't know still... no definitive answer has yet been found on whether a liquor store allowspeople under 21 to enter "officially".
    Well, if it's official from the WALCB, then it's pretty clea... well, no, it's not clear at all, since minors can still enter with supervision.

    What we need here is a WA Attourney General letter on the matter.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    slugsgomoo, it is nice to see another Arsian on here. There are at least three of us, as I have seen budder in here too. One of these days you, Caustic and I will have to hook up at a range or something!


    as to the topic of carrying in a liquor store, I have never OCd, but have CCd more times than I can count. I am of the thinking that since they are not serving it, and that you can't drink it in the store...

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    Here's some more info, none that really answer the OP, but interesting none the less.
    Here is a link that talks about the signage required. WAC 314-11-060
    There's nothing mentioning liquor stores.
    Interesting things to me:
    1. Section 5-
    (5) Firearms prohibited signs provided by the board must be posted in each tavern and lounge (per RCW 9.41.300).
    Why only taverns and lounges? Why not everywhere persons under 21 are prohibited from entering. Is it only illegal to carry where they serve? Is the bar area in a restaurant considered a lounge (this area per section 1 has to have a sign prohibiting minors)? Why can't the two types of signs in section 1 have a no firearms line? It would certainly make things a little more clear.

    2. Apparently the only places that need to post the "minors prohibited" signs are places that have a license from the liquor control board. Do liquor control board "stores" have to have a license?

    3. Why does the LCB or state have to run the liquor stores? I'm not from these parts originally. WY and CO the sale of liquor is a little more lax, in fact you can drive up to a window and ask for a case of "your beer" or a bottle of "your poison" and drive away after the purchase.

    I figured that since we haven't found a definative answer that I'd stir the pot little.

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    xpun8:

    The taverns and lounges thing is because people are in there specifically drinking alcoholic beverages.. It has not always been that way, but it is now, and it is silly. I used to carry in taverns and lounges all the time when it was legal, and nobody got shot.

    The state is in the monopoly liquor control business. Been that way since prohibition was lifted, far as I know. The liquor control board CONTROLS liquor, consumption and sale. The legislature has toyed with the idea of changing that, but then some lobbyist explains that the state would lose its monopoly and with it a big pile of revenue.,

    This ain't Wyoming or Colorado. Oh, well.

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    Dave Workman wrote:
    xpun8:

    The taverns and lounges thing is because people are in there specifically drinking alcoholic beverages.. It has not always been that way, but it is now, and it is silly. I used to carry in taverns and lounges all the time when it was legal, and nobody got shot.

    The state is in the monopoly liquor control business. Been that way since prohibition was lifted, far as I know. The liquor control board CONTROLS liquor, consumption and sale. The legislature has toyed with the idea of changing that, but then some lobbyist explains that the state would lose its monopoly and with it a big pile of revenue.,

    This ain't Wyoming or Colorado. Oh, well.
    The Steele Act of 1933 made Washington State the sole source of "distilled spirits" sold in the state.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    I just talked with an officer with the LCB ( they are here qualifying today ) and asked him the question "Is it legal to carry a gun in a liquor store?" He said he would talk to his CO and get back with me. About an hour later he came back out into the store and said he had talked with his CO who called the state office and confirmed there are no laws prohibiting the lawful carry of firearms inside a liquor store. He then said I would have to abide by any local laws depending on which store I went to but when I mentioned state preemption he agreed that I could go into any liquor store in the state, armed.

    :celebrate:celebrate

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    Agent 47 wrote:
    I just talked with an officer with the LCB ( they are here qualifying today ) and asked him the question "Is it legal to carry a gun in a liquor store?" He said he would talk to his CO and get back with me. About an hour later he came back out into the store and said he had talked with his CO who called the state office and confirmed there are no laws prohibiting the lawful carry of firearms inside a liquor store. He then said I would have to abide by any local laws depending on which store I went to but when I mentioned state preemption he agreed that I could go into any liquor store in the state, armed.

    :celebrate:celebrate
    Outstanding, Aaron!!! Thanks for the update.

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