Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: A couple OC questions

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    9

    Post imported post

    As my username suggests, I'm a pizza delivery guy. I deliver in the west end of Louisville which I'm sure many of you know, is not a nice part of town. You may recall hearing about a pizza guy getting shot there in the beginning of April? That was a close friend of mine. (He's recovering and going through rehab, by the way.) I'm still working there while I work on getting transfered to a safer area.

    Anyway, my questions: My company policy forbids weapons of any sort but because of the nature of the job the managers tend to look the other way. I don't have my CCDW so my only option is open carry. Most people don't notice a weapon even if it's right in front of their face but I'd like to keep it as inconspicuous as possible while still being safe. My work occasionally has me moving through crowds or having my hands occupied with people behind me. What are the limitations of how hidden a gun can be while still being considered open carry? I've searched around and haven't found a clear answer.

    I've seen some reference to laying the gun on the seat of a vehicle or in a visible holster while driving but the only law reference I can find only refers to keeping it in the glove box. I drive a Jeep Cherokee with a tiny glove box that I can't fit my gun in, so that's not an option. It's also a hassle to holster/unholster every time I get in and out of my vehicle.

    Leo's in that neighborhood generally cut me a lot of slack but I want to have my bases covered here. There's always the chance of getting the stickler.

    Thanks in advance for whatever insight you can offer.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Mag-bayonettes!, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,407

    Post imported post

    If management forbids carry, I'd seriously reconsider open. You're going to get called on either walking around, or by the people actually receiving the pizza. Are you old enough to get your CCDW? If not, you might be limited to just a taser or OC spray while working. Opencarry.org says that plain-view is okay for vehicle carry (on the next seat).
    -Unrequited

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    9

    Post imported post

    The corporate policy is against carry but at my specific store they don't mind. I am old enough to get my CCDW but by the time I get it I probably won't still be working in the same area. My manager last night said that if there's ever a problem, that he never knew I had a gun. I expect that at worst, they would just tell me to stop carrying.

    Thanks for the advice.

  4. #4
    State Researcher dng's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    , , USA
    Posts
    1,290

    Post imported post

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/3515.html

    I think the same situation is discussed here. Sorry about your friend, as well. Unrequited is right. Carrying a gun is going to result in phone calls to your store. It would probably be wise to carry concealed if you are going to carry at all, since the company forbids it.

    As far as how much of an open carry can be concealed, you can't even have your shirt covering the gun. Carry it holstered and exposed if you open carry. You don't want to be charged with carrying concealed without a license. Not a good thing to have on your record.

    Maybe you could change jobs if that's a possibility. I would be scared to be a pizza delivery guy with the way the world works today. Good luck!

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    9

    Post imported post

    I'm working on changing jobs. I'm supposed to be getting a call this week about a transfer. Hopefully tonight will be my last night there.

    What if the tip of the gun stuck out below the shirt? I'm guessing that would be considered concealed and would be risky at best.

  6. #6
    State Researcher dng's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    , , USA
    Posts
    1,290

    Post imported post

    That's considered concealed... Sorry

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    9

    Post imported post

    I figured it was. I'll have to get started on the permit process...

    The only reaction I had tonight was, "Oh, you're white! What are you doing out so late?" I laughed and asked if there was a white people curfew that I didn't know about. The lady then noticed the gun and winked as she said, "Oh, okay, I see you've got a friend with you."

    I only carried after dark when the streetlights were out and things looked a little iffy. A black gun blends into a black uniform on a dark street pretty well.

    But I will get started on the permit. I don't really feel super comfortable with carrying like I did tonight.

  8. #8
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    , Indiana, USA
    Posts
    1,606

    Post imported post

    ThePizzaGuy wrote:
    The corporate policy is against carry but at my specific store they don't mind. I am old enough to get my CCDW but by the time I get it I probably won't still be working in the same area. My manager last night said that if there's ever a problem, that he never knew I had a gun. I expect that at worst, they would just tell me to stop carrying.

    Thanks for the advice.
    Or they could fire you, if your employer would just tell you simply to stop carrying that is great, but if this is a chain you work for, which I suspect it is, and it is not franchised out to an independent owner, I would think they would terminate you for a violation this serious.

    Now yes, a violation is a violation, whether you forgot your hat at home, or you are a carrying a firearm, however I think the latter would be taken more seriously.

    But the headline would make for a good story! "Pizza Guy thwarts criminals with firearm."

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    9

    Post imported post

    It is a chain store but I work for a private franchise. I would rather lose my job than lose my life.

    It actually saved me last night. About ten houses down from where I got robbed and got a broken jaw a few months ago, there was an obvious setup by a group of 8-10 guys including the three who robbed me before. When they started to move in I rested my hand on the butt of my gun and turned so they could see it. They all hurried back the other direction.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Corbin, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    45

    Post imported post

    It actually saved me last night. About ten houses down from where I got robbed and got a broken jaw a few months ago, there was an obvious setup by a group of 8-10 guys including the three who robbed me before. When they started to move in I rested my hand on the butt of my gun and turned so they could see it. They all hurried back the other direction.
    I don't know about Louisville, but in the "civilized" part of the state a CCDW is quick and painless to get. It took longer to get the training class certificate (3 weeks) than the permit (7 days). I'm from Louisville, and know exactly what you mean about the west end. I wouldn't be there at night unarmed, either. No job is worth your life. Parts of Louisville are almost as bad as the south side of Chicago. When I worked up that way, I refused to travel there after dark. Being armed wasn't an option, thanks to Czar Daly.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    , Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    275

    Post imported post

    unrequited wrote:
    Opencarry.org says that plain-view is okay for vehicle carry (on the next seat).
    not in KY. State law says the only place the weapon's NOT considered to be concieled is in a glove box installed by the manufaturer, regardless if said glove box locks or not.

    The 140$ to pay for a CCDW in the state of KY is a small price to pay, in the whole scheme of things.

  12. #12
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    ThePizzaGuy wrote:
    The corporate policy is against carry but at my specific store they don't mind. I am old enough to get my CCDW but by the time I get it I probably won't still be working in the same area. My manager last night said that if there's ever a problem, that he never knew I had a gun. I expect that at worst, they would just tell me to stop carrying.
    The manager's commitment to keep mum is unenforceable. If you shoot someone or get into a gun showing and get identified as the pizza store guy, it'll all come out. Hell, you'll be telling anyone that will listen that he knew...

    Get a different job/location. Time to bail. Unless, that is,you want to carry a gun around...

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    9

    Post imported post

    Thanks for the replies guys.

    I have transfered to a much safer area. I've been there a month now and only had one minor confrontation. I feel completely comfortable without the gun. I'm still getting my permit to carry when I'm not working though.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    2,247

    Post imported post

    Pizza Delivery is one job that should require being armed no matter what section of town you work. Not long ago one of the nicest fellows you ever met was robbed and killed delivering pizzas near my home and it was in and area of $500,000 homes which is very nice for our part of the country and the BG's weren't from that area.

    Even if you don't intend to carry concealed it is always good to have a permit in case you find yourself in the situation where you need it. I know there are some who will disagree but I can't think of any disadvantages of having a CWP whether you ever use it or not.



  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    9

    Post imported post

    It is the third most likely job to be murdered, right after LEO and cab driver. Ranked every year in the top 5 most dangerous jobs in the world.

    I agree that we should be allowed to carry guns, or even be required to. Unfortunately, the insurance companies don't think the same way.

    I may be moving out of state in a month or two which will require a job change. I'll miss the job in a way, but at the same time I'll be glad to be out of harm's way.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Englewood, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    654

    Post imported post

    Pizza Guy,

    One other thing to consider, if you company doesn't allow it. Then you might be putting your insurance (if you have it) coverage in jepordy.

    If you would happen to be hurt or killed, the medical and even life insurance could possibly void your policy since you were carrying

  17. #17
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    ThePizzaGuy wrote:
    It is the third most likely job to be murdered, right after LEO and cab driver.
    Actually, in this country, first is President of the United States...



    ThePizzaGuy wrote:
    I agree that we should be allowed to carry guns, or even be required to. Unfortunately...
    That would be an interesting thing: to require an occupation to have its practitioners be armed. I'm not sure that would even be constitutional...

    I guess we just like to propose any dang thing that might solve any dang problem. Maybe.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    9

    Post imported post

    The president wasn't on the list I saw. I doubt they consider that a normal profession.

    Sorry, required, isn't the word I was thinking. What I had in mind was issue a gun or a gun allowance along with weapon training at the end of the application process. It's admittedly a faulty theory, but at the very least we should be allowed to carry.

  19. #19
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    Lthrnck wrote:
    One other thing to consider, if you company doesn't allow it. Then you might be putting your insurance (if you have it) coverage in jepordy.

    If you would happen to be hurt or killed, the medical and even life insurance could possibly void your policy since you were carrying
    Is this possible? That an insurance company for a company (let's say in general, not necessarily for a pizza store) wouldn't pay off if the employee got hurt/killed while carrying?

    It sounds plausible....how do you know this? Can anyone substantiate this?

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    9

    Post imported post

    I don't know if they wouldn't pay off, but they would raise rates if we carried. Insurance premiums that the company pays for drivers are already incredibly high. If we were armed and that much more likely to hurt or kill other people, and ourselves, rates would skyrocket even higher.

    They could justifiably fight having to pay if the employee knowingly broke company policy. Just like car insurance, if you give false information or break their rules and they find out, they won't cover you.

    I don't know of any cases that support it, but I wouldn't be surprised at all.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Englewood, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    654

    Post imported post

    I cannot cite any cases, but insurance companies sure don't like to pay if they don't have to. So I was just raising a possible bad outcome. I know in alot of life insurance policy they have "War Acts" and such. Doesn't seem to far fetched that if they could prove that you violated company policy and was carrying a gun, that they wouldn't try to void your coverage.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Lexington (Or Prestonsburg), , USA
    Posts
    10

    Post imported post

    Top five most likely to be murdered huh? And I just got a job deliverin' for Papa Johns earlier.....

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •