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Thread: Incorporated are of LA OC

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    New to the forum, looks great.

    So I just got off the phone with a person at the Ca. State Attorney Generals office. When in an incorporated are of Los Angeles you are permitted to carry an unloaded firearm.

    Now he clearly said there isn't a law written that states you cannot open carry unloaded because of that, doing so isn't against the law kind of by default. All you are doing is subjecting yourself to search or inspection by LE anytime they want. It is at the LE's discretion on how he/she approaches you during the inspection. While you might be politely asked to surrender your firearm for inspection, you should also expect to have a gun drawn on you and subjected to a felony stop procedure. Once you are in custody the firearm will be inspected and the situation will carry on from there.

    The instant you carry a loaded magazine on you with a firearm, (not inserted into the firearm) the firearm is considered to be loaded. Even though it is on the opposite hip.

    He summed up by saying, "You are permitted to carry an unloaded firearm on your person while in public, but your asking for unnecessary excitement."

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    dfalcon217 wrote:
    New to the forum, looks great.

    So I just got off the phone with a person at the Ca. State Attorney Generals office. When in an incorporated are of Los Angeles you are permitted to carry an unloaded firearm.

    The instant you carry a loaded magazine on you with a firearm, (not inserted into the firearm) the firearm is considered to be loaded. Even though it is on the opposite hip.
    Welcome to the forum;

    Unloaded weapon + loaded magazine according to PC 12031 is not a loaded firearm. I am curious as tohow the AG's office had come to this conclusion- Any citation of code?
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    Here's the case law establishing that having ammunition accessible is not considered 'loaded' as defined under 12031.

    Rupf v. Yan (2000) 85 Cal.App.4th 411
    Common statutory definitions of "loaded" firearms include loaded and attached magazines or clips.
    California v. Clark (1996) 45 Cal.App.4th 1147
    The term "loaded" has a commonly understood meaning: "to put a load or charge in (a device or piece of equipment) a gun" or "to put a load on or in a carrier, device, or container; esp: to insert the charge or cartridge into the chamber of a firearm." (Webster's New Collegiate Dict. (1976) p. 674.) Under the commonly understood meaning of the term "loaded," a firearm is "loaded" when a shell or cartridge has been placed into a position from which it can be fired...
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    ConditionThree wrote:
    I am curious as tohow the AG's office had come to this conclusion- Any citation of code?
    Citation of code or case law? I actually got a good laugh out of that one.

    What you have here is another case of a veiled personal agenda paraded as sound legal advice.
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    dfalcon217 wrote:
    New to the forum, looks great.

    So I just got off the phone with a person at the Ca. State Attorney Generals office. When in an incorporated are of Los Angeles you are permitted to carry an unloaded firearm.

    Now he clearly said there isn't a law written that states you cannot open carry unloaded because of that, doing so isn't against the law kind of by default. All you are doing is subjecting yourself to search or inspection by LE anytime they want. It is at the LE's discretion on how he/she approaches you during the inspection. While you might be politely asked to surrender your firearm for inspection, you should also expect to have a gun drawn on you and subjected to a felony stop procedure. Once you are in custody the firearm will be inspected and the situation will carry on from there.

    The instant you carry a loaded magazine on you with a firearm, (not inserted into the firearm) the firearm is considered to be loaded. Even though it is on the opposite hip.

    He summed up by saying, "You are permitted to carry an unloaded firearm on your person while in public, but your asking for unnecessary excitement."


    We need the name of the person you spoke with at the AG's office if you know it. Thanks and welcome!

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    cato wrote:
    We need the name of the person you spoke with at the AG's office if you know it. Thanks and welcome!
    A phone number would be handy, too.
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    (916)263-4887

    I believe his name was Brett, could be wrong.


    Just found this.

    section (g) towards the bottom of the page.

    http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/app...enco12031m.htm

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    dfalcon217 wrote:
    (916)263-4887

    I believe his name was Brett, could be wrong.


    Just found this.

    section (g) towards the bottom of the page.

    http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/app...enco12031m.htm

    oh dont be afriad to copy and past penal code- we have been disecting this for awhile so we arent squeamish.
    (g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case which holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm; except that a muzzle-loader firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder.
    So.

    A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm...
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

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    I don't see anything there about having the loaded magazine attached to your belt/person.

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    dfalcon217 wrote:
    I don't see anything there about having the loaded magazine attached to your belt/person.
    Yes,... exactly. Since it is not prohibited, it is allowed. This is why I almost always take information dispensed by federal, state, or local authorities with a grain of salt... often it is more opinion than fact. Sometimes it seems, its intended to mislead people into believing the law is more strict than it actually is.

    Which, when you get down to it is an abuse of power- governing or restricting lawful behavior under the color of law.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

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    ConditionThree wrote:
    dfalcon217 wrote:
    I don't see anything there about having the loaded magazine attached to your belt/person.
    Yes,... exactly. Since it is not prohibited, it is allowed. This is why I almost always take information dispensed by federal, state, or local authorities with a grain of salt... often it is more opinion than fact. Sometimes it seems, its intended to mislead people into believing the law is more strict than it actually is.

    Which, when you get down to it is an abuse of power- governing or restricting lawful behavior under the color of law.
    Here's all I could find regarding the ammunition and firearm the ammunition may be used for being on the same person.

    For the purposes of Penal Code section 12023 (commission or attempted commission of a felony
    while armed with a loaded firearm), a firearm is deemed loaded when both the firearm and the
    unexpended ammunition capable of being discharged from the firearm are in the immediate
    possession of the same person.

    Clearly states that it is only unlawful to carry ammo with firearm (unloaded) when commiting or attempting to commit a felony.

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    dfalcon217 wrote:
    Here's all I could find regarding the ammunition and firearm the ammunition may be used for being on the same person.

    For the purposes of Penal Code section 12023 (commission or attempted commission of a felony
    while armed with a loaded firearm), a firearm is deemed loaded when both the firearm and the
    unexpended ammunition capable of being discharged from the firearm are in the immediate
    possession of the same person.

    Clearly states that it is only unlawful to carry ammo with firearm (unloaded) when commiting or attempting to commit a felony.
    There may be a few other statutes that use this more liberal definition of 'loaded.' I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I have yet to memorize all of the CA codes...
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    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    dfalcon217 wrote:
    Here's all I could find regarding the ammunition and firearm the ammunition may be used for being on the same person.

    For the purposes of Penal Code section 12023 (commission or attempted commission of a felony
    while armed with a loaded firearm), a firearm is deemed loaded when both the firearm and the
    unexpended ammunition capable of being discharged from the firearm are in the immediate
    possession of the same person.

    Clearly states that it is only unlawful to carry ammo with firearm (unloaded) when commiting or attempting to commit a felony.
    There may be a few other statutes that use this more liberal definition of 'loaded.' I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I have yet to memorize all of the CA codes...


    People vs Clark is about a section of H&S code which prohibits loaded firearmswhen in possession of drugs but itdoesn't define "loaded". So the court used Pc 12031 g as being a reasonable definition of "loaded" which they applied to Clark.

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