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Thread: Woman shoots "aggressive" panhandler over change...

  1. #1
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    Does anybody in Ohio have any more details besides the loose reporting here? A lot of bad press is all I'm seeing so far, and the woman isn't being portrayed as the ripest banana on the tree...

    http://news.google.com/news?q=Geraldine+Beasley

    Police: Woman Killed Man Over Spare Change
    Bond Set At $500,000

    POSTED: 7:56 am EDT August 8, 2007
    UPDATED: 6:56 pm EDT August 8, 2007
    CINCINNATI -- Police say a man was shot to death Monday night over a quarter.

    Investigators said late Monday that they believe that Donald Francis was looking for spare change from passersby when he approached Geraldine Beasley in the parking lot of a gas station at Eighth and Linn streets.

    Police said Beasley, 62, became angry with Francis, pulled out a gun and shot him.

    "He asked her for a quarter," said Chief Tom Streicher. "That's apparently all there was to it."

    Francis, 44, died in the gas station parking lot a few steps away.

    “This crime is a tragedy and absolutely appalling,” said Georgine Getty, Executive Director of the Greater Cincinnati Coalition for the Homeless, in a news release. “Unfortunately it’s all too common that homeless people are the victims of crime.”

    Getty said that Francis' death was a hate crime, and homeless activists said the shooting is part of a nationwide trend.

    “Crimes against homeless people occur more often than we think,” said Andy Freeze of the Homeless Coalition. “They go unreported because people are afraid to report them.”

    Beasley appeared in court on Wednesday, where she was arraigned on a murder charge and ordered held on $500,000 bond.

    She had no previous criminal record, and her attorney told the judge Beasley had mental health issues to be addressed.

    A homeless man who calls himself “Redcorn” said Francis used an aggressive style to ask for money.

    “I know that's his style, all the way," Redcorn told News 5. "I mean, like pushing on people and doing this and doing that, man.”

    Redcorn said he holds a handwritten sign to bring in about $30 per day panhandling downtown, and he’s not surprised Francis was killed.

    “If he's messing with a 62-year-old woman man then he deserved what he got,” Redcorn said.

    Others are a bit less severe.

    “She should have just walked away just walked away like a lot of people do,” said area woman Bonnie Wright. “Some people give them money, some people don't. Some people walk away (and) that's what she should have (done).”

    Aggressive Panhandling To Blame, Homeless Man Says

    Statement From Greater Cincinnati Coalition For The Homeless
    -Unrequited

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    unrequited wrote:
    Does anybody in Ohio have any more details besides the loose reporting here? A lot of bad press is all I'm seeing so far, and the woman isn't being portrayed as the ripest banana on the tree...
    Looks like a typical goof with a gun story...

    I bet she wishes she'd been aware of:

    HankT's Postulate of Self-Defense: It is a bad strategy to shoot an unarmed person.







    Here's the AP report:

    Police: Man shot over 25 cent request
    By Associated Press
    Advertisement


    CINCINNATI -- A woman shot and killed a panhandler who asked her for 25 cents, police say.

    "He asked her for a quarter," Police Chief Tom Streicher said. "That's apparently all there was to it."

    Donald Francis, who police believe was homeless, stood outside a gas station late Monday asking people for money. Geraldine Beasley had complained about Francis to someone else, and when he approached her she pulled out a gun and shot him, police said.

    Francis, 44, died at the scene.

    Beasley, 62, was charged with murder and on Wednesday was ordered held in lieu of $500,000 bail, according to court documents. Her attorney, Mass Ionna, told Municipal Court Judge Fanon Rucker that his client has mental issues.

    Beasley's court record dates back 15 years with traffic charges, eviction cases and civil judgments both for and against her. She was fined in 2003 for improperly transporting a loaded gun after officers found one in her van.

    http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2...1092528362.txt


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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Here are three stories from the Cincinnati Enquirer:

    http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.d...8070009/-1/all

    http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.d...8080411/-1/all

    http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.d...8090404/-1/all


    Who knows what actually happened, but the media is quick to comdemn the woman - instead of the race card it's the homeless card.

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    It's a Political thing. Can't blame a Homeless Person ( it's so sad what has happened to him/her(sarcasm). (Why not geta LIFE and being RESPONSIBLE, they CHOOSE to be HOMELESS).

    Blame the Person with the Gun cuz it LOOKS better when the Anti-Gun Voltchers will do Their thing and Politically it will look better for the Paper,(til it's proven the the Lady was being attacked violently cuz the Homeless Guy didn't get his "free" money that the 'ol Lady have worked so hard for at one time or another.)

    I just don't get it. I feel awkward asking for just 5 cents from somebody let alone 25 cents. What makes a Homeless Person believe that they should have any money when they have NOT worked for it. Try to go to your company and ask for money without working for it. You will be thrown out faster then you asked.

    I feel sad for the Homeless People in the sense that they have lost and given up hope to do better. But not sad cuz they picked that path.

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    Sounds to me like a really pushy beggar and a slightly unstable person with a gun, thats a bad combination. Difficult to say who is at fault in this situation.

    I can easily believe that a very pushy beggar would easily be able to terrify a 62 year old woman, especialy if he is physicaly intimidating or even pushing her.

    I wonder how this one will come out in court.

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    Wow, thats too bad. One less bum beggin for your hard earned money because their too lazy to work for it.



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    1Shot
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    "They're" --

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    1Shot wrote:
    "They're" --
    Yea, thats what I meant... Thanks bud.

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    "A homeless man who calls himself “Redcorn” said Francis used an aggressive style to ask for money.

    “I know that's his style, all the way," Redcorn told News 5. "I mean, like pushing on people and doing this and doing that, man.”

    Redcorn said he holds a handwritten sign to bring in about $30 per day panhandling downtown, and he’s not surprised Francis was killed.

    “If he's messing with a 62-year-old woman man then he deserved what he got,” Redcorn said."



    Looks like Francis finally pushed the wrong person.


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    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    Panhandlers are not know to be willing to take "no" for an answer. I would bet this guy was being confrontational, and the woman feared for her safety. But there again, I only have media reports to draw conclusions from, and we all know that's about the worst thing you can do. I makes me mad the way the media portrays all homeless: innocent, harmless people, and we should just hand them our hard earned money.

    Get a job, stop smoking crack, and become a contributing member of society, instead of a drain on humanity, a nusance, and many times a threat to people as they go about their own lives WORKING A JOB providing for themselves and their families. I'm sure there are some good people out there who have just fallen on hard times, but that's the exception, not the rule.

    Ok, enough of my rant. I just hate being annoyed for money that I worked hard to earn. That's my 2 cents...

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    Founder's Club Member OC-Glock19's Avatar
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    dngreer wrote:
    Get a job, stop smoking crack, and become a contributing member of society, instead of a drain on humanity, a nusance, and many times a threat to people as they go about their own lives WORKING A JOB providing for themselves and their families.

    This is also good advice to many of our elected officials.

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    OC-Glock19 wrote:
    dngreer wrote:
    Get a job, stop smoking crack, and become a contributing member of society, instead of a drain on humanity, a nusance, and many times a threat to people as they go about their own lives WORKING A JOB providing for themselves and their families.

    This is also good advice to many of our elected officials.
    ROTFLMAO

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    OC-Glock19 wrote:
    dngreer wrote:
    Get a job, stop smoking crack, and become a contributing member of society, instead of a drain on humanity, a nusance, and many times a threat to people as they go about their own lives WORKING A JOB providing for themselves and their families.

    This is also good advice to many of our elected officials.
    ROTFLMAO
    + 1

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    DrewGunner wrote:
    Wow, thats too bad. One less bum beggin for your hard earned money because their too lazy to work for it.
    One less otherwise law-abiding gun-carrying citizen, too. And it hurts the rest of us law-abiding gun-carrying citizens because the generalpublic reaction is solidly against a person shooting and killing another person for a trivial reason.

    It should be stated, of course, that we don't know the details of the Beasley/Redcorn intereaction. It's possible he attacked her in such a manner as to warrant the use of deadly force. But there has been no mention that he wasarmed so that seems unlikely at this point.

    OTOH, it could be that the gun-carrier just used excessive force to meet a possibly difficult probem--a persistent panhandler.

    It's really good to read these stories, though. Beasley is the same as any one of us--we all carry a gun for self-defense and we're all subject to potential attacks where we would have to consider using the gun.

    I myself will never shoot a panhandler. I'd just flip him a quarter, tell him no way, or run away from him.

    Nothing is worse losing my freedom for some broken down bum.

    Why on earth would anyone ever shoot a bum if he was unarmed?



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    Well,...in Utah...

    Utah Code Section 76-2-402




    76-2-402. Force in defense of person -- Forcible felony defined. (1) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the ...
    le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_02022.htm - 5k - Cached - Similar pages


    (1) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he or she reasonably believes that force is necessary to defend himself or a third person against such other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, that person is justified in using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury only if he or she reasonably believes that force is necessary to prevent death or serious bodily injury to himself or a third person as a result of the other's imminent use of unlawful force, or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ""However, that person is justified in using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury only if he or she reasonably believes that force is necessary to prevent death or serious bodily injury to himself""


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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    Well,...in Utah...

    Utah Code Section 76-2-402




    76-2-402. Force in defense of person -- Forcible felony defined. (1) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the ...
    le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_02022.htm - 5k - Cached - Similar pages


    (1) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he or she reasonably believes that force is necessary to defend himself or a third person against such other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, that person is justified in using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury only if he or she reasonably believes that force is necessary to prevent death or serious bodily injury to himself or a third person as a result of the other's imminent use of unlawful force, or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ""However, that person is justified in using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury only if he or she reasonably believes that force is necessary to prevent death or serious bodily injury to himself""
    Are you saying that Redcorn was committing a forcible felony?

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    "A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he or she reasonably believes that force is necessary to defend himself"

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    "Any other felony offense which involves the use of force or violence against a person so as to create a substantial danger of death or serious bodily injury also constitutes a forcible felony. "

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    "5) In determining imminence or reasonableness under Subsection (1), the trier of fact may consider, but is not limited to, any of the following factors:
    (a) the nature of the danger;
    (b) the immediacy of the danger;"

  20. #20
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    OC-Glock19 wrote:
    dngreer wrote:
    Get a job, stop smoking crack, and become a contributing member of society, instead of a drain on humanity, a nusance, and many times a threat to people as they go about their own lives WORKING A JOB providing for themselves and their families.

    This is also good advice to many of our elected officials.
    Amen!

  21. #21
    Regular Member GreatWhiteLlama's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    But there has been no mention that he wasarmed so that seems unlikely at this point."

    "Why on earth would anyone ever shoot a bum if he was unarmed?
    A 62 year old woman being assaulted by someone who is armed or not, would be justification for deadly force.

    It's been mentioned that the panhandler had a history of being aggressive, which would not justify deadly force, but if he was under the influence, (highly unlikely for a panhandler ) he could have snapped and went too far, at which point it would. I imagine this will be the determining factor at trial.

    HankT wrote:
    I'd just flip him a quarter, tell him no way, or run away from him.
    Run away huh? You wouldn't happen to be European would you?
    "...our media are palace eunuchs gazing avidly at the harem of power and stroking their impotent pens in time to the rape of our liberties."
    -Sarah Hoyt

    "America is at that awkward stage; it's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
    -Claire Wolfe

  22. #22
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Turns out the lady had a CHL (concealed handgun license):

    http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070810/NEWS01/308100014



  23. #23
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    BB62 wrote:
    Turns out the lady had a CHL (concealed handgun license):
    Ugh. That makes it worse for the gun carrying community. She is one of us.



    Double ugh:

    Conner said the shooting came three weeks after Beasley was investigated for chasing a man with a gun in hand. He said the man did not cooperate with police and no charges were brought against Beasley.


    I'm beginning to to think that it would have been better for all of us if someone had taken Beasley's gun away from her. We still have to see if the panhandler really did anything to warrant deadlyforce or not. But it's looking like goof with a gun so far.

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    HankT wrote:
    BB62 wrote:
    Turns out the lady had a CHL (concealed handgun license):

    Ugh. That makes it worse for the gun carrying community. She is one of us.



    Double ugh:

    Conner said the shooting came three weeks after Beasley was investigated for chasing a man with a gun in hand. He said the man did not cooperate with police and no charges were brought against Beasley.


    I'm beginning to to think that it would have been better for all of us if someone had taken Beasley's gun away from her. We still have to see if the panhandler really did anything to warrant deadlyforce or not. But it's looking like goof with a gun so far.
    I'm just reading between the lines based on her previous record, but...

    In a less politically correct time, Ms. Beasley might well have been taken away from us--the law abiding sane folk--either by the medical or legal system, before she got this far around the bend.

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    "And it hurts the rest of us law-abiding gun-carrying citizens because the generalpublic reaction is solidly against a person shooting and killing another person for a trivial reason."

    HankT....Sorry for the correction but to call yourself a law-abiding gun-carrying citizen, you need toACTUALLY carry a gun :P


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