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Thread: Re-qualify for CHP ?

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    Regular Member doug23838's Avatar
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    Folks: My Dad tried to renew his CHP recently and was told he had to present a certificate demonstrating competency.


    Has anyone else run into this on a renewal?

    Pop lives in Hopewell.

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    Per § 18.2-308 of the Code of Virginia:

    The applicant shall demonstrate competence with a handgun by one of the following:

    6. Obtaining or previously having held a license to carry a firearm in the Commonwealth or a locality thereof, unless such license has been revoked for cause;
    So his existing license is sufficient proof of compentency.
    ---

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    Regular Member doug23838's Avatar
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    Thanks.. Pop tried that. He was told by the clerk. "This judge requires everyone take the class again. Even on a renewal."



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    doug23838 wrote:
    Thanks.. Pop tried that. He was told by the clerk. "This judge requires everyone take the class again. Even on a renewal."

    :shock:...:what:...

    Good thing I'm in Utah then...

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    1.) 18.2-308 paragaph G deals with proof of competance. My previous quote is from the wrong section but the previous permit is still a valid form of proof. Do note, there is no expiration of competancy.

    2.) Interesting. If you use your DD214 (proof of military training/honorable discharge) to get your original permit, does the judge require you to re-enlist and re-attend bootcamp to renew?

    The judge is breaking the law. Submit with the orignal proof of training. If denied, file an appeal.

    Also, have your dad mention it to VCDL. I'm sure they deal with this type of stupidity quiet regularly.



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    Call VCDL and inform them of Hopewell's practice.

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    doug23838 wrote:
    .....he had to present a certificate demonstrating competency.
    WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!! The judge is BREAKING THE LAW. Making stuff up. Pulling it out of his butt. Contact VCDL, and ask them for advice. This stuff torques me off.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Tomahawk wrote:
    doug23838 wrote:
    .....he had to present a certificate demonstrating competency.
    WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!! The judge is BREAKING THE LAW. Making stuff up. Pulling it out of his butt. Contact VCDL, and ask them for advice. This stuff torques me off.
    I agree. I also get pissed when a public servant usurps his authority, oversteps his bounds, and as much as spits in the face of his bosses (the public). Really don't like this.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    doug23838 wrote:
    Thanks.. Pop tried that. He was told by the clerk. "This judge requires everyone take the class again. Even on a renewal."
    The clerk was wrong. There is no requirement for training. His current/previous CHP will suffice.

    Yes, you can contact VCDL, but they are extremely busy with other things at this point. It may help if you you or your pop initiate some kind of contact with Hopewell and indicate that the law states otherwise and that the judge has no authority to overstep the boundaries.

    I still recommend contacting VCDL and, at least, make them aware and ask for advise, if you need to.

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    when I renewed, for the third time, i had to show a course completion ( this wasn't a problem as I'm an NRA instructor and wrote my own certificate). I didn't for the second renewal. The clerk gave me the impression that they want this every 10 years...this was in Prince William County.

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    vabi wrote:
    when I renewed, for the third time, i had to show a course completion ( this wasn't a problem as I'm an NRA instructor and wrote my own certificate). I didn't for the second renewal. The clerk gave me the impression that they want this every 10 years...this was in Prince William County.
    As detailed above, the law does not require re-qualifying. Your current CHP is proof enough.

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    doug23838 wrote:
    Folks: My Dad tried to renew his CHP recently and was told he had to present a certificate demonstrating competency.


    Has anyone else run into this on a renewal?

    Pop lives in Hopewell.
    I live in Hopewell, renewed this past Feb. Didn't have to show squat.

    According to this section of the state code § 18.2-308. :

    I. Persons who previously have held a concealed handgun permit shall be issued, upon application as provided in subsection D, a new five-year permit unless there is good cause shown for refusing to reissue a permit. If the circuit court denies the permit, the specific reasons for the denial shall be stated in the order of the court denying the permit. Upon denial of the application, the clerk shall provide the person with notice, in writing, of his right to an ore tenus hearing. Upon request of the applicant made within 21 days, the court shall place the matter on the docket for an ore tenus hearing. The applicant may be represented by counsel, but counsel shall not be appointed, and the rules of evidence shall apply. The final order of the court shall include the court's findings of fact and conclusions of law.

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    I can't wait till I'm a lawyer and can take cases like this for free.

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    wouldn't have any of these issue's if the lifetime lic. would have been passed.....

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    chesire17201 wrote:
    wouldn't have any of these issue's if the lifetime lic. would have been passed.....
    My understanding is the lifetime license was passed.....just not funded. A legislative sneaky way of the tossing the people a bone and then snatching it back.

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    kaiheitai17 wrote:
    chesire17201 wrote:
    wouldn't have any of these issue's if the lifetime lic. would have been passed.....
    My understanding is the lifetime license was passed.....just not funded. A legislative sneaky way of the tossing the people a bone and then snatching it back.
    If I remember correctly, not funding it just delayed it a little while. We still will eventually have lifetime permits. Right?

    What's the status of removing required fingerprints statewide?

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    vrwmiller wrote:
    Yes, you can contact VCDL, but they are extremely busy with other things at this point. It may help if you you or your pop initiate some kind of contact with Hopewell and indicate that the law states otherwise and that the judge has no authority to overstep the boundaries.

    I still recommend contacting VCDL and, at least, make them aware and ask for advise, if you need to.
    Always drop a note to VCDL. That way they can keep track of such things.

    Remember that VCDL is a grass-roots organization, so if you contact them, don't expect them to do anything for you, rather, ask them for advice on how to handle it yourself.

    Most of these issues can be resolved by one person with perseverance and knowledge; only the harder ones require VCDL to take action as an organization.

    It also gives you a feeling of satisfaction: you are the one defending freedom, getting results. And when it's all said and done, you have some experience under your belt that you can use in future situations, or to pass on to new activists.

    In this case, armed with the text of the law and some pointers from VCDL on how to proceed, you may very well be able to squelch this on your own. If not, VCDL will back you. Get 'em!

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    sjhipple wrote:
    kaiheitai17 wrote:
    chesire17201 wrote:
    wouldn't have any of these issue's if the lifetime lic. would have been passed.....
    My understanding is the lifetime license was passed.....just not funded. A legislative sneaky way of the tossing the people a bone and then snatching it back.
    If I remember correctly, not funding it just delayed it a little while. We still will eventually have lifetime permits. Right?

    What's the status of removing required fingerprints statewide?
    If they ever fund it.We can't get them to fund highways that are sorely needed without crazy additional tax schemes and "user fees". Not sure about the fingerprint issue.

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    vrwmiller wrote:
    Yes, you can contact VCDL, but they are extremely busy with other things at this point. It may help if you you or your pop initiate some kind of contact with Hopewell and indicate that the law states otherwise and that the judge has no authority to overstep the boundaries.

    I still recommend contacting VCDL and, at least, make them aware and ask for advise, if you need to.
    Always drop a note to VCDL. That way they can keep track of such things.

    Remember that VCDL is a grass-roots organization, so if you contact them, don't expect them to do anything for you, rather, ask them for advice on how to handle it yourself.

    Most of these issues can be resolved by one person with perseverance and knowledge; only the harder ones require VCDL to take action as an organization.

    It also gives you a feeling of satisfaction: you are the one defending freedom, getting results. And when it's all said and done, you have some experience under your belt that you can use in future situations, or to pass on to new activists.

    In this case, armed with the text of the law and some pointers from VCDL on how to proceed, you may very well be able to squelch this on your own. If not, VCDL will back you. Get 'em!
    Tomahawk - one of the best posts of the past year! You've truly hit on what many of us on this board have been harping on - individual responsibility, backed up by organizational interests when required.

    Thanks for an outstanding post.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    removed duplicate post
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    vrwmiller wrote:
    Yes, you can contact VCDL, but they are extremely busy with other things at this point. It may help if you you or your pop initiate some kind of contact with Hopewell and indicate that the law states otherwise and that the judge has no authority to overstep the boundaries.

    I still recommend contacting VCDL and, at least, make them aware and ask for advise, if you need to.
    Always drop a note to VCDL. That way they can keep track of such things.

    Remember that VCDL is a grass-roots organization, so if you contact them, don't expect them to do anything for you, rather, ask them for advice on how to handle it yourself.

    Most of these issues can be resolved by one person with perseverance and knowledge; only the harder ones require VCDL to take action as an organization.

    It also gives you a feeling of satisfaction: you are the one defending freedom, getting results. And when it's all said and done, you have some experience under your belt that you can use in future situations, or to pass on to new activists.

    In this case, armed with the text of the law and some pointers from VCDL on how to proceed, you may very well be able to squelch this on your own. If not, VCDL will back you. Get 'em!
    +1 Tomahawk

    I couldn't have said it better myself.

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    chesire17201 wrote:
    wouldn't have any of these issue's if the lifetime lic. would have been passed.....
    Lifetime permit has been passed in Virginia but not funded so effectively nonexistant. The obsurd thing is that it would save the state money and not change anything enforcement wise, as NCIC check would still be run every five years.
    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    chesire17201 wrote:
    wouldn't have any of these issue's if the lifetime lic. would have been passed.....
    Lifetime permit has been passed in Virginia but not funded so effectively nonexistant. The obsurd thing is that it would save the state money and not change anything enforcement wise, as NCIC check would still be run every five years.
    I agree. It would not cost the state more in order to do so. However, in the current system, the permit holder is charged the renewal fee. If you look at that through the eyes of the legislature, it's revenue lost.

    What the citizens need to do is convince the legislators that there's different ways of increasing revenues and decreasing spending that will not hurt society. How do we do that? pfffft, I have no idea yet... :?

  24. #24
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    vrwmiller wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    chesire17201 wrote:
    wouldn't have any of these issue's if the lifetime lic. would have been passed.....
    Lifetime permit has been passed in Virginia but not funded so effectively nonexistant. The obsurd thing is that it would save the state money and not change anything enforcement wise, as NCIC check would still be run every five years.
    I agree. It would not cost the state more in order to do so. However, in the current system, the permit holder is charged the renewal fee. If you look at that through the eyes of the legislature, it's revenue lost.

    What the citizens need to do is convince the legislators that there's different ways of increasing revenues and decreasing spending that will not hurt society. How do we do that? pfffft, I have no idea yet... :?
    Lifetime renewal would not cost the state or local government money. In fact it would save them money. Under lifetime renewal, only a State Police clerk or automated sysyem need run an NCIC check every 5 yrs.or so. The current procedure requires paperwork/forms, processing, maybe fingerprinting and checking these, clerk and judge's time, salaries, letters sent, permit printing and in some cases postage. Both the State Police and the legislature agree that it would save money and time without losing any element of control - which is really what all of this is about.
    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    vrwmiller wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    chesire17201 wrote:
    wouldn't have any of these issue's if the lifetime lic. would have been passed.....
    Lifetime permit has been passed in Virginia but not funded so effectively nonexistant. The obsurd thing is that it would save the state money and not change anything enforcement wise, as NCIC check would still be run every five years.
    I agree. It would not cost the state more in order to do so. However, in the current system, the permit holder is charged the renewal fee. If you look at that through the eyes of the legislature, it's revenue lost.

    What the citizens need to do is convince the legislators that there's different ways of increasing revenues and decreasing spending that will not hurt society. How do we do that? pfffft, I have no idea yet... :?
    Lifetime renewal would not cost the state or local government money. In fact it would save them money. Under lifetime renewal, only a State Police clerk or automated sysyem need run an NCIC check every 5 yrs.or so. The current procedure requires paperwork/forms, processing, maybe fingerprinting and checking these, clerk and judge's time, salaries, letters sent, permit printing and in some cases postage. Both the State Police and the legislature agree that it would save money and time without losing any element of control - which is really what all of this is about.
    Like I said, I agree. Now take what you've said and find a way to convince your legislators and have them put it into a "funding bill". I say funding bill, because the actual lifetime permit bill has been passed, just not funded. Bescaue it is not funded, it is actually seen as revenue lost. From what I have seen, the legislature sees new bills as a way of increasing revenues (HB3202), therefore, if no additional revenues are attached, then why fund it?

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