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    So I was on Wikipedia, was clicking links after each story, wound up on this, it has a story about a man who used a gun to commit suicide, but a botched attempt, just reading this makes me feel ill.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_gunshot_suicide


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    One particular case has been documented from Australia. In February 1995, a man committed suicide on parkland in Canberra, Australia. He took a pump action shotgun and shot himself in the chest. The load passed through the chest without hitting a rib, and went out the other side. He then walked fifteen meters, reloaded, leaned the shotgun against his throat, and shot his throat and part of his jaw. Breathing through this gunshot-induced tracheotomy, he reloaded, walked 136 meters to a hill slope, lay down on the slope, held the gun against his chest with his hands and operated the trigger with his toes. This shot entered the thoracic cavity and demolished the heart, killing him.[6]
    Holy crap dude.
    -Unrequited

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    "Believe nothing you read or hear without verifying it yourself or it fits your pre-existing worldview." Remember Vince Foster's homicide at Fort Marcy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Vince_Foster

    An autopsy report http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/...n/herdson.html does not constitute, I believe IANAL, proof of any sort. There was no allegation of homicide and, thus, no attempt to differentiate these findings from those of a brutal homicide.

    The Austrailian government suffers from a particularly virulent hoplophobia and the skewed analysis of this scene is a product of that delusion.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    A gun is apopular tool for committing suicide. Also, t's the most successful tool choice for suicides. There are about 16,000 suicides a year that are done with guns.

    And the gun is effective. Gunsuicide attemptsare "successful"about 90% of the time. Much greater than all other methods.

    If you have someone in your family or someone you care for who is truly suicidal, take away their gun immediately. You will increasetheir chances of survival considerably.

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    HankT, a beloved member of the OCDO family is clearly suicidal. JBTs do your duty as Tyrant HankT demands, and remove his guns, knives, hose, rope, string, plastic bags, pencils, pens ... better, incarcerate him in his rubber-room for his own good.

    Only a tyrant can infringe.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    Regular Member GreatWhiteLlama's Avatar
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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    HankT, a beloved member of the OCDO family is clearly suicidal. JBTs do your duty as Tyrant HankT demands, and remove his guns, knives, hose, rope, string, plastic bags, pencils, pens ... better, incarcerate him in his rubber-room for his own good.

    Only a tyrant can infringe.
    Wait, what?

    It's tyrannical to take guns away from someone who has become suicidal?

    I missed the joke or you haven't completely thought this through DH.
    "...our media are palace eunuchs gazing avidly at the harem of power and stroking their impotent pens in time to the rape of our liberties."
    -Sarah Hoyt

    "America is at that awkward stage; it's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
    -Claire Wolfe

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    Only a tyrant can infringe. Only a tyrant-wannabe will suggest infringement.

    Is the tyrant's purpose to grab guns or to prevent suicide? Grabbing guns will not prevent suicide. The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    I think suicide by train has a higher success ratio.

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    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
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    Wait, what?

    It's tyrannical to take guns away from someone who has become suicidal?

    I missed the joke or you haven't completely thought this through DH.
    Taking away someone's guns won't change their mind about dying. It can, however, deepen their feelings of hoplessness and rage.

    You can do whatever you like trying to talk them out of it and offer support, of course, but it is not rational or moral to initiate force to "save" them.

    They OWN their own lives and bodies. They have every right to decide what to do with either one.
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

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    lockman wrote:
    I think suicide by train has a higher success ratio.
    Oh, my Gawd!! :what: I think we need to seriously consider banning trains now!

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    MamaLiberty wrote:
    Wait, what?

    It's tyrannical to take guns away from someone who has become suicidal?

    I missed the joke or you haven't completely thought this through DH.
    Taking away someone's guns won't change their mind about dying. It can, however, deepen their feelings of hoplessness and rage.

    You can do whatever you like trying to talk them out of it and offer support, of course, but it is not rational or moral to initiate force to "save" them.

    They OWN their own lives and bodies. They have every right to decide what to do with either one.
    Maybe someone should start a suicide clinic, kind of like an abortion clinic, but you go in the room and do your own business -- you wouldn't have to hire anyone but janitors...

    You would sell the bullets and rent the guns...

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    lockman wrote:
    I think suicide by train has a higher success ratio.
    I tend to doubt that.

    But the success rate of suicide byjumping of the Golden Gate Bridge is higher than by gunshot. It's about 98%. This applies only to the GGN, though.

    And the success rate of suicide by hijacking a Boeing passenger airliner to crash into a big building in the U.S. is an astonishing 100%! So, that has to be the winner...

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    openryan wrote:
    MamaLiberty wrote:
    Wait, what?

    It's tyrannical to take guns away from someone who has become suicidal?

    I missed the joke or you haven't completely thought this through DH.
    Taking away someone's guns won't change their mind about dying. It can, however, deepen their feelings of hoplessness and rage.

    You can do whatever you like trying to talk them out of it and offer support, of course, but it is not rational or moral to initiate force to "save" them.

    They OWN their own lives and bodies. They have every right to decide what to do with either one.
    Maybe someone should start a suicide clinic, kind of like an abortion clinic, but you go in the room and do your own business -- you wouldn't have to hire anyone but janitors...

    You would sell the bullets and rent the guns...
    ROFLMOA!!!

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    Yeah I have to say I agree, if someone wants to die that's their right. I don't think it is ever right to try and force someone to live. Talking to them, trying to get them help, yes, but never force. As human beings we own our own bodies and can do as we will with them.

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    openryan wrote:
    MamaLiberty wrote:
    Wait, what?

    It's tyrannical to take guns away from someone who has become suicidal?

    I missed the joke or you haven't completely thought this through DH.
    Taking away someone's guns won't change their mind about dying. It can, however, deepen their feelings of hoplessness and rage.

    You can do whatever you like trying to talk them out of it and offer support, of course, but it is not rational or moral to initiate force to "save" them.

    They OWN their own lives and bodies. They have every right to decide what to do with either one.
    Maybe someone should start a suicide clinic, kind of like an abortion clinic, but you go in the room and do your own business -- you wouldn't have to hire anyone but janitors...

    You would sell the bullets and rent the guns...
    Ryan, you are a ghoulish little devil after my own heart ! Help ' em out!

    BTW, please quit tormenting us with your ever-more-revealing avatar!

    Also, my hat is off to Mama Liberty, good to see you gracing our forums with your presence again, Madam!

    TrueBrit.

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    massltca wrote:
    Yeah I have to say I agree, if someone wants to die that's their right. I don't think it is ever right to try and force someone to live. Talking to them, trying to get them help, yes, but never force. As human beings we own our own bodies and can do as we will with them.
    Well, it does get complicated. I'd agree to that.

    But, as a general rule, if someone is truly suicid

    al, then ethical considerations come into play. Some serrious ones.

    So, I would always favor taking any of the usual suicide attempt tools away from a truly suicidal person, ifhe/she were someone in my family or someone that I cared a great deal about. Ifsuch a personwere truly suicidal, the first thing I'd try to do is take their gun(s).Obviously, one can't guarantee that a truly suicidal person won't find another way. That's a trivial point. The valid point is that removing a truly suicidal person's guns would eliminate the most powerful suicide implement he has. Therefore, expected longevity would be enhanced. Would give time to work out the problems leading to the suicidal motivations...

    It would be a good poll question: If someone in your family or who you cared about a great deal were to become truly suicidal would you take away his guns?

    I would answer, Yes.

    Although, I could seesome extreme situations where a person committing suicide might be justified. But not many.

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    openryan wrote:
    Maybe someone should start a suicide clinic, kind of like an abortion clinic, but you go in the room and do your own business -- you wouldn't have to hire anyone but janitors...

    You would sell the bullets and rent the guns...
    Guns? Lethal injection, with pretty pictures and music. Go rent Soylent Green for an example.



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    A possible part of the "Universal Health Care" crowd's plans?
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    AbNo wrote:
    A possible part of the "Universal Health Care" crowd's plans?
    Heh -- what would the copay be? Your life?

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    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
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    Thanks, TB... I lurk once in a while, but sometimes just can't help jumping in.

    HankT - Just what gives you the right to decide anything for someone else? How is that ethical? It isn't. That's the screwed up "ethics" behind all of the prohibitionists.

    You'd take the guns "for their own good." You have decided for them what is for their "good." You have decided that they are no longer sovereign individuals, but wards of your benevolent and superior intelligence --- or whatever.

    Well, that's exactly the rationale behind everything that has destroyed our liberty, our integrity, our ability to live our lives in peace. In some sick and horrible ways, it's what causes politicians to invade little bitty countries and tell them how to live as well - while killing anyone who doesn't accept their benevolence.

    A lot of people decided - FOR US - that we're too stupid or suicidal or childish to be trusted with guns, or alcohol, or cigarettes. As far as the meddlers are concerned, we can't really be trusted to do anything much without their permission and under their guidelines...

    Suicide is a terrible thing. As a hospice nurse, I dealt with the subject many times and even experienced the aftermath for families a few times when patients chose to speed up their departure. None of them used guns, but it's not unknown in hospice.

    I invite you to take a closer look at suicide today. If you are interested, send me a PM and I'll get some links to you that might help you understand better.

    Suicide used to be quite rare in this country. When people were completely responsible for themselves and their families, and free to live their lives as they saw fit, it just didn't happen often.

    Contrast that with society today where people have been taught for generations that "somebody else" is responsible, that someone else should and must direct their lives and make major decisions for them. Consider the deliberate destruction of the family, marriage, honor and integrity that has gone on at least since 1860!!

    These things and all the other evils of socialist, collectivist imposition on everyone, especially the young people, produce hopelessness, powerlessness and rage. These are the basic cause of suicide, not guns. And taking someone's gun isn't going to change any of it.


    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

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    MamaLiberty wrote:
    Thanks, TB... I lurk once in a while, but sometimes just can't help jumping in.

    HankT - Just what gives you the right to decide anything for someone else? How is that ethical? It isn't. That's the screwed up "ethics" behind all of the prohibitionists.

    You'd take the guns "for their own good." You have decided for them what is for their "good." You have decided that they are no longer sovereign individuals, but wards of your benevolent and superior intelligence --- or whatever.

    Well, that's exactly the rationale behind everything that has destroyed our liberty, our integrity, our ability to live our lives in peace. In some sick and horrible ways, it's what causes politicians to invade little bitty countries and tell them how to live as well - while killing anyone who doesn't accept their benevolence.

    A lot of people decided - FOR US - that we're too stupid or suicidal or childish to be trusted with guns, or alcohol, or cigarettes. As far as the meddlers are concerned, we can't really be trusted to do anything much without their permission and under their guidelines...

    Suicide is a terrible thing. As a hospice nurse, I dealt with the subject many times and even experienced the aftermath for families a few times when patients chose to speed up their departure. None of them used guns, but it's not unknown in hospice.

    I invite you to take a closer look at suicide today. If you are interested, send me a PM and I'll get some links to you that might help you understand better.

    Suicide used to be quite rare in this country. When people were completely responsible for themselves and their families, and free to live their lives as they saw fit, it just didn't happen often.

    Contrast that with society today where people have been taught for generations that "somebody else" is responsible, that someone else should and must direct their lives and make major decisions for them. Consider the deliberate destruction of the family, marriage, honor and integrity that has gone on at least since 1860!!

    These things and all the other evils of socialist, collectivist imposition on everyone, especially the young people, produce hopelessness, powerlessness and rage. These are the basic cause of suicide, not guns. And taking someone's gun isn't going to change any of it.
    I couldn't have said it better myself. In order to be really happy you have to be in control of your own destiny.

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    massltca wrote:
    MamaLiberty wrote:
    Thanks, TB... I lurk once in a while, but sometimes just can't help jumping in.

    HankT - Just what gives you the right to decide anything for someone else? How is that ethical? It isn't. That's the screwed up "ethics" behind all of the prohibitionists.

    You'd take the guns "for their own good." You have decided for them what is for their "good." You have decided that they are no longer sovereign individuals, but wards of your benevolent and superior intelligence --- or whatever.

    Well, that's exactly the rationale behind everything that has destroyed our liberty, our integrity, our ability to live our lives in peace. In some sick and horrible ways, it's what causes politicians to invade little bitty countries and tell them how to live as well - while killing anyone who doesn't accept their benevolence.

    A lot of people decided - FOR US - that we're too stupid or suicidal or childish to be trusted with guns, or alcohol, or cigarettes. As far as the meddlers are concerned, we can't really be trusted to do anything much without their permission and under their guidelines...

    Suicide is a terrible thing. As a hospice nurse, I dealt with the subject many times and even experienced the aftermath for families a few times when patients chose to speed up their departure. None of them used guns, but it's not unknown in hospice.

    I invite you to take a closer look at suicide today. If you are interested, send me a PM and I'll get some links to you that might help you understand better.

    Suicide used to be quite rare in this country. When people were completely responsible for themselves and their families, and free to live their lives as they saw fit, it just didn't happen often.

    Contrast that with society today where people have been taught for generations that "somebody else" is responsible, that someone else should and must direct their lives and make major decisions for them. Consider the deliberate destruction of the family, marriage, honor and integrity that has gone on at least since 1860!!

    These things and all the other evils of socialist, collectivist imposition on everyone, especially the young people, produce hopelessness, powerlessness and rage. These are the basic cause of suicide, not guns. And taking someone's gun isn't going to change any of it.
    I couldn't have said it better myself. In order to be really happy you have to be in control of your own destiny.
    So in order to be happy you have to kill yourself? I mean you cannot fully be in control of your own fate unless you do I suppose, natural causes, or a car accident would obviously not be of ones choice (in most cases), I think the argument could be made both ways.

    The only people I have a problem with who kill themselves are the ones who do it in front of other people and the ones who want to take others with them.

    My girlfriends neighbor commited suicide, and he was a loner, nobody knew until it smelled so bad in the summer, he was dead for over a month.

    Another chilling story -- a friend of my fathers, his wife was sick and dying I believe it was of cancer... Anyway she asked for her husband to shoot and kill her, he went along with it. He ended up killing her, then called their daughter and said "I just killed your mother now I am going to kill myself, I love you." *Click* Talk about a freaky call, by the time she got there they were both dead, I guess you could say it was out of love in some twisted way, sad, but I guess some people either do not want to deal with any pain, either psychological or physical, or just do not see any other way out...

  23. #23
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    "Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose!" If you are not free to end your own life can you say that you are 'free' or that your life was ever your own?

    Two personal anecdotes do not data make.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******


  24. #24
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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    "Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose!" If you are not free to end your own life can you say that you are 'free' or that your life was ever your own?

    Two personal anecdotes do not data make. (Data make?)

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******
    I just threw the stories in there, I thought they were interesting.

    Who told you freedom is another word for nothing left to lose or who are you quoting? Sounds like a sloppy definition to me at best.


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    openryan wrote:
    Who told you freedom is another word for nothing left to lose or who are you quoting? Sounds like a sloppy definition to me at best.
    Its from the song, "Me and Bobby McGee."

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61rgIAtcIaM


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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