• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Utah Firearms discharge ban continues

xmirage2kx

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
478
Location
Lehi, Utah, USA
imported post

I called Utah county sheriffs department and they stated that the firearms discharge ban was still being enforced. I asked if the ban had been renewed and they informed me that it didn’t need to be renewed and was in force until otherwise stated.

From my research into the law they could only ban the discharge due to a state of emergency being declared, and that had to be renewed every 30 days.

So is the person I spoke with misinformed (wouldn’t be the first time), or do I have an incorrect understanding of how this law works (also wouldn’t be the first time)
 

openryan

State Researcher
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,602
Location
, Indiana, USA
imported post

Yeah I just read about it on yahoo -- says it started july 3rd -- also heard that they attributed a number of fires to discharging a firearm -- glad im not in utah.
 

xmirage2kx

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
478
Location
Lehi, Utah, USA
imported post

They claim 7, however upon research on these fires None can be proven bullets started the fires. The best they could find were shells in the area of the fires. I would like anyone to go into the mountains on Utah and go 100 yards without finding bullet shells.

Utah blames fires on anything. in the last month we have had fires start because of: Hot car brakes, Lawn mower hitting a rock, ATV Tail pipes, catalytic converter falling from a car, etc But strangely no fires from fireworks or cigarette butts.... Yeah right....

Smoking should be banned long before shooting, I am sure these "gun" fires are really some rude smoker not stomping out his butts.
 

b1ack5mith

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
1,146
Location
Payson, Utah, USA
imported post

funny thing is, id be able to find the bullets, i have a whites detector :) the hard part is decifering if it started a fire
 

HankT

State Researcher
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
6,215
Location
Invisible Mode
imported post

xmirage2kx wrote:
They claim 7, however upon research on these fires None can be proven bullets started the fires. The best they could find were shells in the area of the fires....

Utah blames fires on anything. in the last month we have had fires start because of: Hot car brakes, Lawn mower hitting a rock, ATV Tail pipes, catalytic converter falling from a car, etc
I was wondering about the same thing when I read this article:

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=1431851

The spokesguys seem kind of wishy-washy about cause and effect. Or even cause and probability.

When they say:

Fires are not uncommon at "make-shift" shooting areas or unauthorized shooting area's.

That's pretty wishy-washy. It's not very meaningful.

However, when they say:

To date, two large fires have started as a result of firearms shooting activities in the unincorporated Utah County area.

That's pretty specific. If they have data (probable cause, so to speak) then they probably can swing the ban politically for as long as they want to. However, your point about the statutory authority comes into play. Under what authority are they imposing the ban? My guess is that they probably have it. Some emergency power or public safety thing....
 

ijusam

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Messages
322
Location
Kent county, Delaware, USA
imported post

IANAL

I followed the link and read:

1. Governor Huntsman declared statewide ban (until rescinded) on discharging tracer ammunition. 4 July 07

2. the county legislative body of Utah county ordnance bans firearm discharge (with exceptions) for 30 days, unless rescinded first. not to be renewed or continued except by or with consent of the board of county commissioners. 10 July 2007.

You might check into what action is considered consent of the board of county commissioners. Does it have to be an official meeting with minutes and all. if so there would need to be a record of the renewal or continuance.

A second thought is : did all countys pass the same ordnance? can you shoot in another county?
 

xmirage2kx

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
478
Location
Lehi, Utah, USA
imported post

xmirage2kx wrote:
They claim 7, however upon research on these fires None can be proven bullets started the fires. The best they could find were shells in the area of the fires. I would like anyone to go into the mountains on Utah and go 100 yards without finding bullet shells.
I have now found that 1 fire was "believed" tohave beenstarted by tracer rounds.

Other fires are still to be related to bullets due to occurring "near popular shooting areas"

We cant sit by and just watch this happen anymore. I am still trying to get official documentation on these fires, but I am being told they are not a matter of public record and can only get watered down media versions. If anyone else has better luck let me know.

Write letters send emails, make phone calls. They play the "pass the buck" game any time you even try to talk to a real person so don’t give up. If we continue to let this happen there will be a permanent ban on recreational shooting outside of official ranges.
 

HankT

State Researcher
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
6,215
Location
Invisible Mode
imported post

xmirage2kx wrote:
xmirage2kx wrote:
They claim 7, however upon research on these fires None can be proven bullets started the fires. The best they could find were shells in the area of the fires. I would like anyone to go into the mountains on Utah and go 100 yards without finding bullet shells.
I have now found that 1 fire was "believed" tohave beenstarted by tracer rounds.

Other fires are still to be related to bullets due to occurring "near popular shooting areas"

We cant sit by and just watch this happen anymore. I am still trying to get official documentation on these fires, but I am being told they are not a matter of public record and can only get watered down media versions. If anyone else has better luck let me know.

Write letters send emails, make phone calls. They play the "pass the buck" game any time you even try to talk to a real person so don’t give up. If we continue to let this happen there will be a permanent ban on recreational shooting outside of official ranges.


The fires must have some cause. The problem is figuring out what that is, if possible.

The sheriff and the politicos seem to be guessing as to what the cause is and controlling their suspected cause.

This is foolish on their part, for two reasons

1. They are probablly/possibly falling into the trap of suspecting a cause that is easily controllable, i.e., gun shooting. Gun shooting is appealing as a cause because it is controllable (by ban).Often, theappealing cause is just a trap for the naive and uneducated, the extremists and the dullards.

2. If the sheriff/politicos take action to prohibit their suspected cause (gun shooting) and fires still get started due to some other cause which they could have identified, then they are performing poorly in their appointed responsibility.


The sheriff/politicos should be pressured to produce their evidence that their suspected cause is:

a. reasonable, and

b. that they are addressing alternative suspected causes.

And, if fires still start which are not gun shooting related, they should all be taken to task for not doing what they could to identify and deter those other causes. This is basic analysis and....economics.
 

UTOC-45-44

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
2,579
Location
Morgan, Utah, USA
imported post

xmirage2kx wrote:
I called Utah county sheriffs department and they stated that the firearms discharge ban was still being enforced. I asked if the ban had been renewed and they informed me that it didn’t need to be renewed and was in force until otherwise stated.

From my research into the law they could only ban the discharge due to a state of emergency being declared, and that had to be renewed every 30 days.

So is the person I spoke with misinformed (wouldn’t be the first time), or do I have an incorrect understanding of how this law works (also wouldn’t be the first time)

Guys.., this is for UTAH COUNTY.

I went on Saturday (Aug 11th) along with my Son-in-Law + his for friends and a son of the friends out to TOOELE and got some rounds of. 1 of the Gentlemen that was with us is with the County (TOOELE COUNTY):p

We had some fun with a Kimber (.45), Llama(.45), 44Mag Ruger Vaquero, 44Mag Henry Rifle, 30-06, Bunch of Glock (of which I'm NOT an owner of), Bunch of 22's as well (not an owner either).

When you go out to Tooele and instead to turn out to Grantsville (Right)at that Light you turn LEFT and up the road you turn 1st Right on to a dirt road. You can't miss it. "Left-over" targets Everywhere.

We had ALOTS OF FUN BOYS.

Let's round up one day and get our shooter's out and have some fun:lol::celebrate:monkey



Remember UTAH COUNTY ban:p
 

xmirage2kx

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
478
Location
Lehi, Utah, USA
imported post

Look on map quest, They have the county borders. Then take your GPS and go 10 feet on the other side and start shooting :cool: If no GPS then you might want to drive a little further to assure you are out of utah county.
 

b1ack5mith

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
1,146
Location
Payson, Utah, USA
imported post

haha how about you grab your GPS, come to my place, pick me up, go grab SGT jensen in sanaquin, and weel all go shooting lol
 
Top