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Thread: 3 Killed in Mo. Church Shooting

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    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070812/D8QVOHO00.html wrote:

    Aug 12, 6:23 PM (ET)

    NEOSHO, Mo. (AP) - A gunman opened fire in the sanctuary of a southwest Missouri church Sunday, killing three people and wounding several others, a city spokeswoman said.

    About 25 to 50 people were briefly held hostage at the First Congregational Church until the gunman surrendered, Neosho spokeswoman Desiree Bridges said.

    Fewer than 10 people were also shot and wounded, Bridges said.

    The shooter was being held at the Newton County Jail, but police were not releasing any information about him. Bridges said he was related to someone in the church, but declined to elaborate.

    Bridges said the shooter had three firearms, but wouldn't say what type. The shooting followed the 1 p.m. service.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    So the obvious question for you Mo. guys: is there a law prohibiting OC or CC in churches in Mo.?

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    Well, Tomahawk, what about the question of...

    Are there laws in Missouri prohibiting the shooting of other people that are minding their own business?

    Because we can SEE how well it worked here....
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    AbNo wrote:
    Well, Tomahawk, what about the question of...

    Are there laws in Missouri prohibiting the shooting of other people that are minding their own business?

    Because we can SEE how well it worked here....
    Obviously the shooter is in violation fo the law.

    My question is to determine if the state has prohibited the victims from proper self-defense.

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    AbNo wrote:
    Well, Tomahawk, what about the question of...

    Are there laws in Missouri prohibiting the shooting of other people that are minding their own business?

    Because we can SEE how well it worked here....
    Obviously the shooter is in violation fo the law.

    My question is to determine if the state has prohibited the victims from proper self-defense.
    Which ties into what I was trying to reiterate.

    Gun laws only stop GG's.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    I am probably the worst Catholic since Ghengis Khan, but these church shootings are surely some of the mostdastardly outrages that can happen to folks.

    Here in KY, CC in church with a CDWL is legal.Truly unconscionable that one should even have to consider such a practice, but there it is. Dunno about OC, somewhat innapropriate, maybe?

    I once saw an off duty plain clothes cop at a FUNERAL, clad in a polo shirt and jeans, badge on belt, complete with sidearm, nonetheless. I think that I was most apalled by the fact that he saw fit not to wear a dark suit, but maybe I am just being snobby here.

    Only in Kentucky, boys....

    TrueBrit.

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    Actually, some churches do allow OC, depending on where you are and what church you're attending. I've heard of some where a male parishioner would no more consider entering church without his gun then he would without his pants. I've also heard of certain denominations blessing firearms.

    No one OC's at my church- though I think a few people CC. I guess it is more respectful to not be drawing attention to the fact that you have a gun- I know a few people in my parish leave their guns in the car during services.

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    I'm no expert on the subject, but doesn't God help those that help themselves?

    I would say carrying is like work ethic.

    You can't expect someone else to do it for you.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    In some places back in the day there were laws requiring to bring your musket to church.

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    Churches in MO. are apart of the do not carry list just like schools. Only a 100 fine if they call cops. nothing aboutOC but I imagineit would be frowned upon in any church around here.

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    It's really up to the congregation. I know one member for certain carried a gun everywhere, but left it in his car during services. He just felt it was more respectful to enter the house of the Lord unarmed. As far as I know, though, our priest doesn't have a problem with it (Anglican).

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    hogleg wrote:
    Churches in MO. are a*part of the do not carry list just like schools. Only a 100 fine if they call cops.** nothing about*OC but I imagine*it would be frowned upon in any church around here.
    I guess now they need to make a law saying you can't shoot people, too.

    Oh wait, there already is one.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Double post, penalty flag.

    And Kendo, check your KoL mailbox.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Video from last night here: http://www.vaguninfo.com/videos/church.htm

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    At only a $100 fine, only if the cops are called. I would take that.

    I wonder who suggested adding churches to the mix of banned places anyway. A few of ourlarge churches around here have actual city police inthe lobby. Not due to crime but due to the potential of a massacre. Still know of many CCing at the same church.

    Hey, they actuallly have a gun parade and all the branches of the militaryin thechurch on memorial day.

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    My wife and I both open carry. At church we conceal. Why? Because our message of liberty and defense of life is less important than a message of Eternal Life and we don't want to distract anybody from hearing it.

    LoveMyCountry

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    LoveMyCountry wrote:
    My wife and I both open carry. At church we conceal. Why? Because our message of liberty and defense of life is less important than a message of Eternal Life and we don't want to distract anybody from hearing it.
    Nicely said.



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    HankT wrote:
    LoveMyCountry wrote:
    My wife and I both open carry. At church we conceal. Why? Because our message of liberty and defense of life is less important than a message of Eternal Life and we don't want to distract anybody from hearing it.
    Nicely said.

    HankT

    There you go getting me to agree with you again. :what:

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    tarzan1888 wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    LoveMyCountry wrote:
    My wife and I both open carry. At church we conceal. Why? Because our message of liberty and defense of life is less important than a message of Eternal Life and we don't want to distract anybody from hearing it.
    Nicely said.

    HankT

    There you go getting me to agree with you again. :what:

    tarzan1888..., What th H**l is wrong with you?:P:P:P


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    LoveMyCountry wrote:
    My wife and I both open carry. At church we conceal. Why? Because our message of liberty and defense of life is less important than a message of Eternal Life and we don't want to distract anybody from hearing it.

    LoveMyCountry
    My wife and I do the same for the same reason. I’m no Bible scholar by any means, but here is some food for thought for those wondering about carrying in church:



    A man is worse than a infidel if he does not provide for the needs of his family (I Timothy 5:8), in my view the family of God is your family

    Jesus told his followers to sell their coat and buy a sword if they didn’t have one (Luke 22:36 - 38)

    Jesus told Peter to put his sword away after he cut off the ear of a servant when he (Jesus) was arrested. Jesus didn’t condemning him for having it (Matthew 26:52)

    During the American Revolution, some of the preachers were often refereed to as those black robed instigators (or something like that) by the Brits. After services, the congregation (those that were members of the militia) and the preacher (many were officers in the militia) would go outside after service with their arms and drill or fight. Where do you think "Give 'em Watts boys, give'em Watts,came from. Thank God they didn’t have the so-called rev. Jackson and Sharpton back then.

    My father (who became a preacher after WW II) always kept a .32 semi-auto in his inside coat pocket. He was one of the few preachers in West Virginia and later in Virginia that allowed blacks in a "white" church. Back in the 50s and 60s, he had more than one run in with KKK. There was more than once the church received threats if he performed a wedding for a black couple. Pop would have his trusty .32 and a double barrel under the pulpit, half of the congregation would show up armed to make sure nobody interfered.

    Deacons of Rev. King also served as his armed bodyguards

    Now we have terrorist groups thatbelieve that anyreligion but theirs should be wiped outand criminals coming into our churches just to murder people. If the preacherhas a problem with my having the means of defending myself, my family and the church, they can have my blessings and I’m going somewhere else.

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    This sort of incident is a real lightning rod for me; fitting that this should be my first post.

    Some of the most pacifistic religious leaders in history have supported the right to self-defense. Gandhi said that violence was necessary if you couldn't protect your family or community otherwise. Just a few years ago, I heard Tenzin Gyatso, the Dalai Lama, say that if someone shoots at you, it is reasonable to shoot back. I'm not sure why some people think God must be opposed to self-defense, but in a world-conscious and historic persepective, it is an extreme view.

    FWIW, if someone came into my church waving a gun and making threats, there would be a half dozen smoking guns and a very different headline. There would probably be a picture of our minister with his .357 on the front page.

    BTW, "God helps those who help themselves" is not in the Bible; Ben Franklin penned that in Poor Richard's Almanac (just clearing up a common error).

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    Bless you and welcome!

    I noticed elsewhere that the 1993 St. James Massacre and Charl Van Wyk's book Shooting Back: The Right and Duty of Self-Defense (Christian Liberty Books, Cape Town, South Africa, 2001 ISBN 0 620-28120-0) is creeping back into the mainstream consicousness.

    Its Dedication;
    This book is dedicated to all the victims of crime - who did not have the means to defend themselves and to all those people living in gun-free zones - who do not have the right to defend themselves.
    My copy took about six months to be delivered by Amazon.com. I am afraid that was their comment of the RKABA.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    What bugs me about the reporting and the marketing is that the weapon was described as a "semiautomatic machine pistol commonly known as a Tech-9". This confuses the readers into thinking that it was a machine gun that was used and therfore anyone having a Tech-9 has a machine gun, proving that machine guns are prevalent and need to be banned.

    A few years back the Intratec website even called the Tech-9 a machine pistol so the reporting is not but so inaccurate but nevertheless inaccurate and irresponsible, feeding us sensationalism as always.

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    tarzan1888 wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    LoveMyCountry wrote:
    My wife and I both open carry. At church we conceal. Why? Because our message of liberty and defense of life is less important than a message of Eternal Life and we don't want to distract anybody from hearing it.
    Nicely said.

    HankT

    There you go getting me to agree with you again. :what:

    tarzan1888..., What th H**l is wrong with you?:P:P:P
    I don't know what came over me, but "don't worry about me going to Hell, I repent to Damn fast" JGK

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    tarzan1888 wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    tarzan1888 wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    LoveMyCountry wrote:
    My wife and I both open carry. At church we conceal. Why? Because our message of liberty and defense of life is less important than a message of Eternal Life and we don't want to distract anybody from hearing it.
    Nicely said.

    HankT

    There you go getting me to agree with you again. :what:

    tarzan1888..., What th H**l is wrong with you?:P:P:P
    I don't know what came over me, but "don't worry about me going to Hell, I repent to Damn fast" JGK
    LMAO


    I LOVE JGK...He's FUUUNY



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