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Asked to leave Best Buy in Bellevue!

HankT

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Tidewater wrote:
I dont understand businesses sometimes? Wouldnt you think, when its obvious that your there with the best of intentions, that it would be good for your customers to be armed? After all, if someone did have ill-intentions, wouldnt they have immediatley carried out what they wanted to accomplish dispite laws? Thats what I DO NOT understand about many carrying laws.



The individual business location, or the corporatepolicy-making department, simply decideson different conceptualmodel of acceptable (and manageable) behavior in their stores than you or I would use. One,not the only one, factor is that the behavior of OC inside a store at its simplest level is a behavior that is done by a tiny percentage of itscustomers. So, if it is deemed objectionable (byemployees, managment,other customers, etc.) then it can be "safely" prohibited. The "safe" prohibition, of course, could notdeny some fundamental right of citizens,because that would likely cause blowback and badpress.If there would betoo much blowback, or the wrong kind, then the prohibition would not be "safe" anymore.

There are probably 4to 6 main factors that go into the conceptualmodel that retailers use to decide whether to give OCthe OK or the boot in their stores. Even if they don't do a formal analysis of the problem, they stillmust use a model of somekind to aid in their consideration of the aspects of the problem.


It would be interesting for a business location owner/manager or a corporate policy-maker to come on OCDO to have a discussion about what goes into the decision to ban OC. Or to allow it, for that matter.

It would be educational for both sides. Right now, it is evident that the pro-OCers don't really understand the prohibiting stores/chains and the stores probably don't really understand the OCers. A good two-way communication would aid both sides, for sure.
 

gregma

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Lonnie Wilson wrote:
I seem to remember a similar incident in either Indiana or Ohio when a bunch of Best Buy stores started posting no guns signs. Seem to remember them on THR.

UPDATE: FOUND IT!

http://tinyurl.com/ywnltc
Great find Lonnie! Ok, I got the District Manager's email last night. I'm going to forward the email I sent to the store manager (I still haven't heard back) to Corporate while CC'ing both the store manager and the District Manager. I'll reference that web site in my email.
 

gregma

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gregma wrote:
Lonnie Wilson wrote:
I seem to remember a similar incident in either Indiana or Ohio when a bunch of Best Buy stores started posting no guns signs. Seem to remember them on THR.

UPDATE: FOUND IT!

http://tinyurl.com/ywnltc
Great find Lonnie! Ok, I got the District Manager's email last night. I'm going to forward the email I sent to the store manager (I still haven't heard back) to Corporate while CC'ing both the store manager and the District Manager. I'll reference that web site in my email.
I'll keep searching for a main email address so I can follow up to that one as well.
Well, all I could find was a form to fill out. No Corporate Email. So I filled it out saying:


Good Morning,


My wife and myself have been regular Best Buy customers for many years and have made purchases amounting to thousands of dollars there. When we visited our local store in Bellevue last night, we were asked to leave because I was legally carrying my firearm. An employee asked me to leave, but that was confirmed by your manager Joshua Florence. Please see the following web site for a dialog last year with Best Buy: Link.

Have things changed since last year in that you no longer wish law-abiding citizens legally carrying a firearm to defend themselves and their family from patronizing your stores?

I will not enter a business that infringes on my right to protect myself and my family. I hope you reconsider this act and remove your prohibition so that I may return to shopping at Best Buy. Thank you for your attention in this matter,
 

xpun8

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What is interesting in all this, to me anyway...

1. A business puts out a sign that somehow says "no guns". People that carry either avoid the store or conceal, carrying against the business owners wishes** and spending their money in the "anti" store. The business stands to lose some business from those that obey the signage.

2. A business has no signage, but ask those that OC to leave the store. Again, word gets out and people avoid or conceal. The business stands to lose some business from those that read the "do not patronize" list.

3. A business has no issues with people carrying leagal firearms. Most patrons of the business are oblivious to those that OC there, those that aren't probably still visit the store and spend money.

All I'm trying to say is, if a business prohibits patrons from carrying firearms on site they are losing money, maybe it's not significant amount. Allowing the carry of firearms doesn't run the money out of the store. I'm not a business owner, nor do I have an MBA, but if I own a business and I'm running people off that would normally spend money in my store, I'm losing money, losing money is bad for business.

I hope that by adding businesses to the "do not patronize" list, passing out the "no guns, no money" cards and keeping forums like this up to date with our experiences that business owners will start to realize that armed folks like to spend money to. I honestly think that we can change some businesses "policy" by educating them. A legal firearm in their store isn't going to make them lose money, it's not going to open them to liability (in my opinion) and most of all it makes it easier on the armed population. :)

**Note: I added this because I've seen here that some people choose to do this.
 

compmanio365

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Only been in Best Buy a couple times, here in Tacoma, but enough to know they are horribly overpriced compared to other electronic stores, so I have little reason to shop there. If they want to create a victim-rich zone, good for them.
 

gregma

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Quick update. Got a canned response from "Customer Care".

Best Buy Customer, This is an auto-acknowledgement indicating we have received your inquiry. We will respond to your inquiry within 3 business days. You can also find answers to many questions about Best Buy services and policies at http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=cat12073&type=page . Thank you for your patience. Best wishes from Best Buy, Your Customer Care Team
Can anyone out there come up with a good corporate email address?
 

gregma

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I received a reply from corporate! Looks like they are going to set the local manager straight on the issue. *crossed fingers* Reply from them was:
Greg,

Thank you for contacting Best Buy about your experience with our Bellevue location. I'm Michael with Customer Care.

We understand your concern about being asked to leave this location for legally carrying a firearm. Best Buy does not have a company-wide policy that bans the right for people to legally carry firearms in our stores. We try and follow all state and local laws regarding this matter. If you do have the ability to legally carry a firearm the store should not deny you access to their location. I have forwarded your email and concerns to the management staff of our Bellevue location for their further review.

Thank you for sharing your comments with Best Buy. Please do not hesitate to contact us with additional questions or concerns. Best Wishes from Best Buy, Michael and the Customer Care Team Original Message Excluded:

And my reply:


Thank you for your reply Mike.

I did send an email to the store manager, and it was only after getting no reply from him that I escalated it up to corporate.

I find it encouraging that you do not have a corporate policy on banning legally carried firearms and I am hoping that this was just a misunderstanding by the store manager that will be easily solved.

I look forward to a quick resolution to the matter so my family and I can start shopping at Best Buy again.
 

Cue-Ball

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That is great news! I've never been a big fan of Best Buy, but perhaps they'll get some of my business now that I know they uphold my right to protect myself.
 

Adamdude04

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I've been in that situation before, I spoke with the manager over at walmart, who was a complete idiot, and I asked him for a copy of his "policy" and if I could see it, he complied..couldn't find it. Told him I'll still leave, with his business card, and a nice letter to his district manager. A few days later, I got a call from the DM and in the mail two weeks down the road a $50 gift card. I told him I was in the store to buy ammo, and was looking to buy a plasma tv (if Igot that far in my shopping) and wassent out of the store, so I think that's why I got the $50, for the ammo.Unknown what happend to the manager
 

Tawnos

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Necro revival, because after two years of shopping at this very Best Buy, I was approached and asked to leave (though as you'll see in my e-mail, the employee backed down and was not seen from again): (Mgr email: david.harmon2@bestbuy.com )

Hello David,
In the past two years here in Bellevue, I’ve been a pretty regular patron of your store, purchasing my DVD and Blu-ray collection, plasma television, Nintendo DS, PS3, et cetera there. Every time I have been in there, I have openly carried a firearm, as is my legal right under Washington State law (Article 1 Section 24, as well as RCW 9.41) and US Federal Law (the recent Heller v. DC decision, as well as the most likely outcome in the recently argued McDonald v. Chicago). There have been numerous armed robberies in muggings in the past outside of Best Buy and other stores for the very items I’m purchasing – a few hundred dollars of games, some electronic gadget, et cetera. My method of self-defense has never been a problem, has not ever been mentioned, until an associate approached me today and said that he’s going to have to ask me to leave.

Previously (2007, prior to my living here), another person known to me experienced a similar problem. When he contacted the corporate office, the response was clear: “Best Buy does not have a company-wide policy that bans the right for people to legally carry firearms in our stores. We try and follow all state and local laws regarding this matter. If you do have the ability to legally carry a firearm the store should not deny you access to their location. I have forwarded your email and concerns to the management staff of our Bellevue location for their further review.” This employee was under-informed, and I patiently and calmly stated that I would like him to verify with corporate the policy in Best Buy, else I could put the two PS3 games and one Nintendo DS games back on the shelf and leave, if he insisted. To his credit, he did go check (though never did return), and I continued my shopping, finishing my purchases without further harassment.

As the general manager of the store, I request that you provide better incidence training for this kind of situation. Instead of lying to me about Best Buy having a “weapons free zone” policy (one that makes no sense, given that I can legally conceal my firearm as well - he would have never known about it – but I choose not to do so because a mugger is much less likely to pursue a visibly armed target), making up other things on the spot, he should have known what the policy was. I ask you, if a customer wore a t-shirt with a political slogan that made another customer uncomfortable, would you abide by your employees asking the t-shirt wearer to leave? If an old, racist person said that there was a black guy, a Mexican, or any other race that made them feel uncomfortable, would you be okay with that discomfort being the basis for discrimination? If not, you can understand why I find it equally deplorable to claim that discomfort of another is a reason to infringe upon my ability as a consumer to spend money in your store.

I trust this will be resolved appropriately, and I have chosen not to name names because the employee did not force the issue when it was clear I was peaceful and already knew Best Buy corporate policy, but rather chose to verify what I said was accurate.

Respectfully,
-[name]
 

Bill Starks

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Best Buy Virginia issue: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/40008-1.html


Sample letter:

Having been a loyal customer of Best Buy for many years, I am confused by a policy enforced by Mr. _______ of store #______ located at __________ in apparent violation of the stated Best Buy corporate policy regarding the carry of legal, personal protection firearms in your stores.

My understanding is that Best Buy permits carrying firearms in accordance with the laws of the state where each store is located. Mr. _________ has taken exception to that and has so advised me that he is the ultimate authority and threatened to "ban me for life" were I to return while carrying.

How may this matter be resolved?

I will honor Mr. ______ demand and shop elsewhere pending resolution.

I look forward to your reply.

Respectfully,

CC: Any previous correspondence
 

Bill Starks

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Michigan Open Carry: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/40385.html


BEST BUY's POLICY

from Customer Contact <
CustomerContact@bestbuy.com>
to XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
date Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 7:31 PM
subject Best Buy Gun policy - XXXXXXXX
mailed-by
bestbuy.com

Best Buy strives to comply with all applicable law and statues. Best Buy also strives to provide a safe and comfortable shopping environment for all our customers. Best Buy does not ban guns at our retail locations. As a general rule, Best Buy does not post “no guns allowed” signs in our stores and we are not aware of any individual stores that might have posted such a sign.
 

amzbrady

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M1, Can you post the link again for the corporate policy letters.

OT -Didnt you have the armed litter patrol sign that State patrol wont let you use it anymore? If so why?
 

Bill Starks

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amzbrady wrote:
OT -Didnt you have the armed litter patrol sign that State patrol wont let you use it anymore? If so why?
Sent you a PM. It's not the state patrol but DOT and the folks who run the Litter Program. It's not an "approved state road sign."
 
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