thorsmitersaw wrote:Please list the legislative achievements of either of those groups(GOA and JPFO). Show me three articles in which someone gave credit to the GOA for passing a bill or getting a candidate elected.The NRA is a giant compromise club.
constantly seceding groundto the enemy is no way to win a war. You must take the offensive, you must attack current legislation and NEVER introduce more restriction in any way.
If you want to help the second amendment support the Gun Owners of America (GOA)and the Jews for the Preservation of Firarms Ownership (JPFO). BOTH of whome do not defend it upon some ridiculous sporting pruposes base like the NRA. The JPFO may be even more hardcore about it than the GOA, OPENLY promoting it as a way to oppose government violence in thier pamphlets and handouts and DOCUMENTARIES they create. 'The Gang' is the latest one and its about the ATF.
As far as a presidential candidate... if you are a no compromise sort of person like me with gun rights and constitutional restrictionsthen the only real choice is Ron Paul... on EITHER side of the aisle. His record trumps all others alive today. PERIOD.
GOA lives by bashing the NRA and thats it.
I was thinking about signing up as a member of the NRA, but after reading and hearing about how they are "compromising" with those that would take away our RKBA, trying to secure victory by digging the grave for our rights, and their inability to fight on the real issues that are being raised against gun ownership and not just those that pertain to "hunter's rights", I decided I could put my money to better use elsewhere. I could engage in homegrown pro-2A activism all by myself and my fellow OC'ers by just going out and showing people that responsible people with guns pose no threat to anyone except the "bad guys". NRA be damned for all the "good work" they do........
The NRA-bashers (spit!) that pop up to bitch and moan when the NRA fails again to support full auto machine guns for everyone including felons.are detestable.
I'ma member of the NRA and support it pretty strongly. The NRA is the greatest, most effective lobbying group in the history of this country. Better than the AMA, Better than AARP. Better than the tobacco lobbyists...,er, OK, the NRA is the greatest single lobbying group in the history of this country.
There would not be 80 million plus gun owners in the U.S. without the NRA.
There would not be 250 million-plus guns in the U.S. without the NRA.
There would not be CC laws in 40+ states without the NRA.
There would not be stand your ground laws in _?_ states (with more to come) without the NRA.
Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
The NRA-bashers (spit!) that pop up to bitch and moan when the NRA fails again to support full auto machine guns for everyone including felons.are detestable. Doug Huffman-types don't understand that somebody on the national (and international, lately) scene has to play the adults in dealing with legislators, legislatures, and legislation in strategic contexts for all gun-owning constituencies. The NRA-natterers (spit!) who ungratefully enjoy the fruits of several decades of NRA successes are, more-often than not, just simplistic-minded freeloaders (spit!).
Too early to tell on the presidential campaign. Ron Paul has nearly perfect positions on gun issues. But he is a loon on almost all other issues. I wouldn't vote for him as dogcatcher in Doug Huffman's county (spit!).
Keepandbear wrote:thorsmitersaw wrote:Please list the legislative achievements of either of those groups(GOA and JPFO). Show me three articles in which someone gave credit to the GOA for passing a bill or getting a candidate elected.The NRA is a giant compromise club.
constantly seceding groundto the enemy is no way to win a war. You must take the offensive, you must attack current legislation and NEVER introduce more restriction in any way.
If you want to help the second amendment support the Gun Owners of America (GOA)and the Jews for the Preservation of Firarms Ownership (JPFO). BOTH of whome do not defend it upon some ridiculous sporting pruposes base like the NRA. The JPFO may be even more hardcore about it than the GOA, OPENLY promoting it as a way to oppose government violence in thier pamphlets and handouts and DOCUMENTARIES they create. 'The Gang' is the latest one and its about the ATF.
As far as a presidential candidate... if you are a no compromise sort of person like me with gun rights and constitutional restrictionsthen the only real choice is Ron Paul... on EITHER side of the aisle. His record trumps all others alive today. PERIOD.
GOA lives by bashing the NRA and thats it.
Why dont you try to defend the search and approval crap the NRA allows and its approval of the ATF and its support for present gun laws? Anyone who supports the laws in place is not taking ground, they are only defending current losses.
The GOA and the JPFO give alot of resources to contact and link with locals and officials on many levels. They helps cut to the heart of legislation and makes sure its supporters know of is. They help fight court battles. And the JPFO creates alot of literature and movies which they have screned in a few places. The GOA makes NUMEROUS television and radioapperances. Many things the NRA ignores or supports, often times the only lobbying power to stop it is heard from these two groups! like the so-called juvenile crime bill. The NRA endorsed Bush for president... what a great success for gun rights hes been!I dont see the NRA doing anything to raech young people or educate anyone outside of its own members either like the JPFO does.
WE NEED TO TAKE THE OFFENSE. If the NRA is a army, then the JPFO and the GOA are the special forces!
interesting read here about how the NRA might be SCREWING shit up!:
http://www.reason.com/blog/show/119457.html
but its mainly about principle, which the NRA obviously lacks. I contribute to all three organizations but not so much to the NRA becauseI would rather give purists my money to attempt to make them into more of a force to be reconed with than contribute to a well established gun rights lite group.
Hang in there Keepandbear, when you're right you're right. :cuss:Oh and Bush has done nothing for gun rights?!?! Maybe we should have gone with McCain or Gore instead:banghead:? Bush has only appointed two judges to the Supreme Court and that only has a 10-20 year effect? What about the Commerce in LawfulArms Act? What about the the Police Officer Carry Act? What about the destruction of federal firearms records?
thorsmitersaw wrote:Keepandbear wrote:thorsmitersaw wrote:Please list the legislative achievements of either of those groups(GOA and JPFO). Show me three articles in which someone gave credit to the GOA for passing a bill or getting a candidate elected.The NRA is a giant compromise club.
constantly seceding groundto the enemy is no way to win a war. You must take the offensive, you must attack current legislation and NEVER introduce more restriction in any way.
If you want to help the second amendment support the Gun Owners of America (GOA)and the Jews for the Preservation of Firarms Ownership (JPFO). BOTH of whome do not defend it upon some ridiculous sporting pruposes base like the NRA. The JPFO may be even more hardcore about it than the GOA, OPENLY promoting it as a way to oppose government violence in thier pamphlets and handouts and DOCUMENTARIES they create. 'The Gang' is the latest one and its about the ATF.
As far as a presidential candidate... if you are a no compromise sort of person like me with gun rights and constitutional restrictionsthen the only real choice is Ron Paul... on EITHER side of the aisle. His record trumps all others alive today. PERIOD.
GOA lives by bashing the NRA and thats it.
Why dont you try to defend the search and approval crap the NRA allows and its approval of the ATF and its support for present gun laws? Anyone who supports the laws in place is not taking ground, they are only defending current losses.
The GOA and the JPFO give alot of resources to contact and link with locals and officials on many levels. They helps cut to the heart of legislation and makes sure its supporters know of is. They help fight court battles. And the JPFO creates alot of literature and movies which they have screned in a few places. The GOA makes NUMEROUS television and radioapperances. Many things the NRA ignores or supports, often times the only lobbying power to stop it is heard from these two groups! like the so-called juvenile crime bill. The NRA endorsed Bush for president... what a great success for gun rights hes been!I dont see the NRA doing anything to raech young people or educate anyone outside of its own members either like the JPFO does.
WE NEED TO TAKE THE OFFENSE. If the NRA is a army, then the JPFO and the GOA are the special forces!
interesting read here about how the NRA might be SCREWING shit up!:
http://www.reason.com/blog/show/119457.html
but its mainly about principle, which the NRA obviously lacks. I contribute to all three organizations but not so much to the NRA becauseI would rather give purists my money to attempt to make them into more of a force to be reconed with than contribute to a well established gun rights lite group.
Way to not address the challenge I presented. I'll address your challenge upon you answering mine.
Oh and Bush has done nothing for gun rights?!?! Maybe we should have gone with McCain or Gore instead:banghead:? Bush has only appointed two judges to the Supreme Court and that only has a 10-20 year effect? What about the Commerce in LawfulArms Act? What about the the Police Officer Carry Act? What about the descrustion of federal firearms records?
Ron Paul has nearly perfect positions on gun issues. But he is a loon on almost all other issues. I wouldn't vote for him as dogcatcher in Doug Huffman's county (spit!).