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Thread: Silly LEOs...

  1. #1
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    Here's the story:
    My car was low on brake fluid when I drove into town to go for a walk, and the warning light came on. No prob, I'll just park it here and walk to get some brake fluid at 1:30 AM. Hey, I wonder if UDF is open wonder if they have brake fluid? Oh wait, there's a sign on the door that says "No Weapons," guess I can't go in there. Silly me, I should have left my pistol in my disabled vehicle. Ah, WalMart is only 2 miles down the road, it's not raining, I think I'll walk, need the excercise anyway. Get to WalMart, do my business, then start walking back. Halfway back, A Miami University Police car passes me in my direction of travel, then flips. I am walking with traffic because it's the only place there's room. Drivers side take-down lights come on and blind me, officer asks me where I am going. "back to my car to add brake fluid, it's low" as I show him the bottle. LEO asks where my car is, I tell him about a block from where I work on High St. Then here comes...

    LEO: "why do you have a weapon?"
    Me: "For my personal protection"
    Ride-along LEO: "OK, fair enough. The only reason we turned around was because you have a weapon."
    Me:"OK thanks guys, have a safe night"
    LEO: "You too"
    And off they go. Not even 30 seconds of my time.

    So I keep walking. I get 3/4 of the way back and 2 police cars that were sitting in a parking lot blacked-out turn on their headlights and head in my direction from behind. I notice the car says Oxford Police. Passenger-side take-down lights come on and the officer leans toward the passenger side of the car and goes through the same questions essentially, except he adds one.

    LEO: Where are you heading to after that?
    Me: I'm going to put the brake fluid in my car and go home.
    LEO: OK, have a good one.

    I walk up and add the brake fluid to my car, but I spilled some on my hands. 3 Oxford Police units were watching me, parked 3-wide in the same direction on Main St. I walk down to where I work to see if they're still open, as they schedule people until 4 and it was only 3:45. Nobody home, I go back to the car. I wipe my hands on a towel in the trunk, unload my pistol there as well (no CC) and get in my car and leave. I always unload below the trunk lip as to not offend any passers-by. I drive past the LEOs and turn down Main St. I immediately see one car flip and follow me. The other 2 meet up with us at the next intersection. The 3 of them "escort" me to the edge of town (AKA jurisdiction) and then disappear. I realized that I forgot to get something at WalMart, so I had to go back. I turn back around and head back in to town. As soon as I hit the line the LEOs are back following me. I drive to WalMart, they follow but park across the road when I turn in. As I leave, they follow. I head back out of town, hit the same driveway (just out of sight) and go back in town to Kroger. They appear again. One LEO thought he would pull a sneaky surveilance from across the street, so I pulled just out of his sight to where he had to get back on the street to see me, then I turned the opposite way. As I left town to come home, I still saw Crown Vic lights in my rear-view until I hit the city limit.

    I promptly pulled off and called dispatch and asked why I was being followed by 3 police cars. I made no mention of my (legal) OC, as I have no obligation to. I explained to the dispatcher that 3 police cars had been following me for the last 30 minutes at least and I wanted to know why. After being put on hold for 30 seconds, He told me that it was because I was carrying a loaded gun. I told him that I did nothing illegal, and that tailing someone for 30 minutes with 3 cars is unreasonable and borderline harassment. His explaination: "People just don't carry guns here and to carry one raises suspicion, that's why they were following you."

    Huh... Miami U PD didn't think it was suspicious even though I gave them the same exact story. (Oxford watched me unload on High St., load and unload at WalMart, then load and unload at Kroger, they knew very well that the pistol was UNLOADED and in the trunk.)

    I told dispatch that it is a citizen's right to carry, and that I wouldn't change my behavior. My question having been answered (not a good answer, but an answer nonetheless), I thanked the dispatcher for his time and effort, told him the answer was not good enough, but that I understood that it wasn't his problem.

    Anything to do from here? OC more often? It's a hassle to Load/Unload every time, I think they designed the laws that way on purpose. I've already accepted the fact that this course of action could potentially land me (wrongly) in the back seat of a cruiser. Also planning on getting my CC in KY where I'm from, this being a college town and all. I don't want anyone to think I like being in OH

  2. #2
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    Oxford/Miami is a pretty well insulated place, or so they think. Not a lot of gun stuff going on there, although I remember playing with a friends loaded AK in the middle of Beech St. back in the day... I wouldn't consider having a cop follow me out of town to constitute harassment, considering how ugly they could get if they cared. Disorderly conduct, resisting, etc, are all automatic convictions upon their say-so if they really want to be jerks. The mayor's court there WILL convict you if you ever get a ******** ticket for such things, so just carry on as you were and don't sweat it overmuch.

    -ljp

  3. #3
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    You probably could have just driven those last couple miles to WalMart without the brakes giving up the ghost.

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    You should have driven around all night until they got tired of following you.



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    They were running parallels on me when I decided to go home finally. Every street I drove by I would see a car pull over about a block up and turn off their lights. Did they actually believe I couldn't tell they were crown vics with light bars on top? Geesh, I sure hope not. As my KY license plate states, I am a combat veteran and I can tell when I'm being tailed. It was fun to out-fox the foxes then call dispatch and ask why the LEOs didn't have anything better to do than follow a law-abiding citizen around with no reason. An unloaded weapon in the trunk of the car is no reason. The double-back in Kroger's lot was priceless, I wish I could have seen the LEOs face. That was when they "officially" stopped following me.

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    You should have went home, switched vehicles and came back! Hey, it sounded like fun.

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    Brian D. wrote:
    You probably could have just driven those last couple miles to WalMart without the brakes giving up the ghost.
    Know what? I'm sure that you're right. Not the point though. I actually wanted to walk, just to walk. Last I checked walking isn't an inherently suspicious activity. If it was, retirement communities would be in serious trouble.

    What would have happened if a deer jumped out in front of me? Air bubble + panic stop = tow truck + a call to the insurance company. Erring on the side of caution is why I left the car where it was, and why I carried. That's air-tight reasoning, and why the LEOs couldn't stop me. They were waiting for me to not signal or roll a stop sign, then ask to search the car (which would have been refused), dog comes in, alerts on the trunk (gunpowder,duh!), they search anyway. I know enough LEOs (in KY) personally to know how that works.

    I am under no obligation to inform them of my unloaded weapon in the trunk at a traffic stop, right? (i.e. LEO says "Do you have anything with you I should know about?")

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    openryan wrote:
    You should have went home, switched vehicles and came back! Hey, it sounded like fun.
    Already been pulled over on my other vehicle (Yamaha R6) and told that I can't ride in the dark with a KY permit. I do sometimes anyway as I'm pretty sure that LEO was a bit confused (KY license, OH tags on bike). As for switching last night, I considered it, but didn't feel confident that I would be 100% right in that situation, and that could jeopardize OUR situation. Better safe than sorry when carrying. Anything found in my car I could explain, as I've had it all apart and know there's nothing to worry about in it

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    v8shoguy wrote:
    openryan wrote:
    You should have went home, switched vehicles and came back! Hey, it sounded like fun.
    Already been pulled over on my other vehicle (Yamaha R6) and told that I can't ride in the dark with a KY permit. I do sometimes anyway as I'm pretty sure that LEO was a bit confused (KY license, OH tags on bike). As for switching last night, I considered it, but didn't feel confident that I would be 100% right in that situation, and that could jeopardize OUR situation. Better safe than sorry when carrying. Anything found in my car I could explain, as I've had it all apart and know there's nothing to worry about in it
    Yeah, I had a ninja for a year, ended up selling it, not enough time to ride... However with the IN permit, you can only ride during daylight as well...


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    To me those police sound overly watchful perhaps, but not silly. Open carry is far from the norm in these parts, especially late at night. I doubt that a few of us OCing will change that anytime soon. Oxford's a college town and if the PD wasn't busy with the bars or frat/sorority hijinks at the time, yeah it sounds par-for-the-course that what you were doing would "ping their radar".

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    v8shoguy wrote:
    I am under no obligation to inform them of my unloaded weapon in the trunk at a traffic stop, right? (i.e. LEO says "Do you have anything with you I should know about?")
    Last time i read the US Constitution i think your 5th ammendment can apply here.

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    Not that it's incriminating to have, or admit to having, or refusing to admit to having, an unloaded handgun in your trunk. You still have a right to decline to answer questions or submit to a search, whether you're breaking the law or not (if they have PC, they don't have to ask; if they ask, that means they don't). Being "uncooperative" is not a crime; it's not even probable cause or reasonable suspicion. The last time I consented to a search of my vehicle, the cops damaged the latch on the trunk, so I "just say no."

    -ljp

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    also, not consenting to a search can not be held against you in court as an admission of guilt

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    I am under no obligation to inform them of my unloaded weapon in the trunk at a traffic stop, right?
    A loaded weapon in the trunk or inaccessible to driver or passenger without leaving vehicle and you are under no obligation either............Correct or am I wrong??

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    Hell, you don't have a duty to inform an LEO if you have a dead body and a kilo of crack in your trunk (5th amendment), so why should a gun, loaded or otherwise, be different?

    -ljp

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    And when you get pulled over for speeding etc... you don't have to talk to the officer as long as you cooperate and give him your DL and insurance, don't say a word the entire time. It gets me when they always ask you where you are going and what your doing...

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    I think you were just being a smart ass. Why would you continue to come back? The police are going to do what they want and by coming back time after time like that you were just pushing it to see what would happen. OC is great but why see how far you can push an officer? You are lucky that you didn't spend the night in jail. What if you did? Would that have been a metal foryou? The Police are not the bad guys. Some may be ignorant but most are for us carrying.

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    Kbrake wrote:
    I think you were just being a smart ass. Why would you continue to come back? The police are going to do what they want and by coming back time after time like that you were just pushing it to see what would happen. OC is great but why see how far you can push an officer? You are lucky that you didn't spend the night in jail. What if you did? Would that have been a metal foryou? The Police are not the bad guys. Some may be ignorant but most are for us carrying.
    I disagree.

    If someone is doing something lawful, even with a firearm, then the police have no businesss sticking their nose into other peoples affairs. Is it illegal to carry a cell phone in a holster? No.

    So imagine now our friend walking down the street with a lawfully holstered cell phone. Is the presence of a cell phone sufficient probable cause to stop him under suspicion of being a drug dealer? Or for that matter, suspicion of guilt for ANY crime? No.

    People keep treating a firearm differently than a cell-phone or a car or any other lawful object. The reality is that unless someone carrying exposed has actually commited a crime or it can be proven that they intend to commit a crime, police have no standing in following, detaining, or otherwise harrassing a law abiding person. So it is not we few that are pushing against the police, it is the police pushing on us. Do we deserve a 'metal' (MEDAL) for our trouble? No, just some recognition that we did the right thing when others trample our rights unjustifiably.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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    I agree with you, but.............................. If we are going to get to that level then we have act normal. He was acting supicious and was looking for trouble.

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    Even though OH is technically an OC state, it is still a borderline people's republic, and I would not go there, even to CC (Anyone aware that even with a CC permit, if you carry a pistol in your glovebox or console, it must be locked? How asinine!). Sorry you had to go through this, though. Unfortunately, many cops have nothing better to do than harass law abiding citizens doing things that they (the cops) don't approve of, such as openly carrying a handgun.

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    Forgetting something at the store then going back for it isn't acting normally? Not wanting to be tailed isn't acting normally? I have rights too. Last I checked, Oxford isn't part of some "police state" where there is a curfew. I'm not trying to start an argument, just clarifying.

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    I am not saying that he did anything wrong. But in the eyes of the Police he was acting in a suspicious manner. Even if he wasn't carrying he encountered the police 6 times if I counted right. All I am saying that if we want to be legitimate we have to act like we are ligitimate.

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    Sorry for the bump and my late addition to the thread. The title caught my eye and upon reading, there's much to be said.

    @v8shoguy: I like the way you think, the way you ASSERT yourself while not being aggressive, and the purity of your mental approach. I think if every gun owner/carrier had a similar disposition, we could turn the tides of public perception in very short order Thank you for sharing. When dispatch told you that it doesn't happen around there, I probably would've countered that legality has nothing to do with frequency. What if there was a REAL criminal engaged in REAL suspicious activity that they could've caught had they not been tailing somebody that was clearly a law abiding citizen.

    Criminals don't open carry. It would bring attention to them during a time when they're trying to go unnoticed for the surprise factor. When approached by police, they would panic, assume they're done for, and pull the gun for the sake of "survival." Openly carrying and NOT freaking out when police intervene kills their attempt at "suspicious." The single question I'm the most tired of answering is "Well how are we supposed to know?" You were given five senses. Use one.

    Also, I agree with you about the question. If they ask if I have weapons, I'll answer accordingly. But the "anything I should know about" is essentially "I've got nothing on you, would you care to volunteer anything." While they may be good intentioned men, this is a sadistic ploy to prey off of those who are nervous in the presence of the police. Which with what happens these days, should be most everybody.

    @Legba: I can certainly agree with your line or reasoning. However, not fighting for something because its small in comparison is how we got into this mess in the first place. Notice how ammo prices have skyrocketed? They can't take the guns, so they'll take the ammo. Or just the people with ADHD today and the bed wetters tomorrow. And so on. They nickle and dime because if you woke up and a grand was missing, you'd notice

    @Kbrake: WalMart is open to the public. So it occurs to me that one doesn't need a reason to go there. Therefore the question of why is irrelevant. I'm glad he went back even if it was to be a smartass (which I have no reason to believe it was and neither do you). EVERY SINGLE TIME somebody takes notice of you carrying a gun and sees that the aftermath is 100% devoid of violence and/or criminal activity, you are tipping the scales in our favor ever so slightly. So that one day, maybe we won't have to face ANYBODY asking us why we're going where we're allowed to be or what we're up to when we aren't doing anything wrong

    @ConditionThree: I completely agree with your every word. One point I try to make frequently is that a firearm being present does NOT change the equation in any shape or form. Those who feel otherwise are punishing the good guys for the transgressions of the criminals.

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