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Thread: Some People Just Don't Get It. SAFE ZONES are KILLING ZONES!

  1. #1
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    I guess this could go in other posts in this forum...Anyways. This article kind of ticked me off.

    Found this silly article this afternoon. Why is it that those who want to disarm us think they can by some great magic solve everyones problems? If they could only get those darn guns away the world would be at peace.

    There will always be evil in this world. As long as it is there, you have a right to defend yourself against it. This notion that because you are in a church, you give up that right to defend yourself is nuts.



    http://www.thekansan.com/stories/081...81708043.shtml


    If he had been armed with a club or a knife he almost certainly would have been wrestled to the floor and disarmed before he could have killed three and wounded five. But 50 unarmed men, women and children are no match for a berserk man with such an arsenal.

    This comment is exactly why Gun Control will never work. You will not be able to unarm theevil doers. Instead you will legislate 50 unarmed men, women and children that are no match for a berserk man with an arsenal.


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    http://www.thekansan.com/stories/081...81708043.shtml


    The Iola Register wrote:
    PUBLISHED: Friday, August 17, 2007

    A man who felt demeaned opened fire in a Neosho, Mo., church last weekend. He killed three people and wounded five others before surrendering to police.

    A member of the church, he said he was angry because others were talking about him behind his back. T

    he tragedy in Neosho could have been avoided if the man involved had had the professional help he obviously needed. The personal pain he suffered might not have cost three people their lives if he had not been so heavily armed. ...

    There were about 50 people in the church at the time.

    If he had been armed with a club or a knife he almost certainly would have been wrestled to the floor and disarmed before he could have killed three and wounded five. But 50 unarmed men, women and children are no match for a berserk man with such an arsenal.

    One really can’t argue that the best remedy society can offer to prevent such incidents is to arm pastors, install metal detectors at church entrances or post armed guards at either side of church altars at every service. Or to advise all attending worshippers to come to church ready for a gunfight. To be prepared, in other words, to fight violence with violence.

    Is there any religion that agrees with this logic?

    It is both more practical and more moral to keep weapons intended only for killing people off the open market and out of the hands of all but law enforcement officers.

    — The Iola Register
    Unbelievable premise that only law enforcement should be armed and with weapons intended only for killing.

    I suspect that some Jews here and there and then and now have been prepared to fight violence with violence. How else does one effectively resist violence?

    Charl Van Wyk, not a 'church' but a churchman wrote Shooting Back: The Right and Duty of Self-Defense (Christian Liberty Books, Cape Town, 2001) on the St. James Massacre on 25 July 1993. Eleven were killed and 53 wounded in the machine gun and grenade attack on a congregation of 1500 worshipers. May we measure holiness by the size of ones congragation, then I imagine Charl is 'holier than thou.'

    The instant my ELCA congragation speaks out against self-defense weapons and turns a pacifist cheek to the world then I leave.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******


  3. #3
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    Safe Zones are indeed Killing Zones. How many more examples do we need? Churches, Schools, Govco facilities, AIRPLANES, Malls, etc.

    Think Columbine, VTech, Post Offices, 9/11. No firearms allowed, and the results were horrific.

    It is apparent the extreme libbys will never get it. We have to focus on those that we can converse logically with... I have witnessed some people changing, rare, but it can happen.

    Simple logic says there is an easy solution, but few have the fortitude to overturn malum prohibitum laws or be disobedient.

    Churches are an issue. It's private property so the church/pastor should have the say-so on firearms. Just like any private property enterprise has the right to allow firearms. Churches are optional locations for us, as we choose to be there. That differs from having to be in a school from time to time, taking care of business with Govco and having to conduct business travel by airplane. While airplane travel could be argued as somewhat optional, we do have to make a living and I believe it is part of our right of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Hmmmm.

    Our church has a no-gun policy and it galls me. I've discussed it with the pastor and will do it again. I am always armed in some way (not necessarily a firearm) and I sit in an 'escapable' location. Will it stop me from attending? That depends, and is an individual choice. I am going to continue to press the pastor to change his mind...

    Just my .02

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    I was looking for some data on states that have mandated churches as "No Gun Zones". Missouri is one such state. $100 misdemeanor fine if the police get there.

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    hogleg wrote:
    I was looking for some data on states that have mandated churches as "No Gun Zones". Missouri is one such state. $100 misdemeanor fine if the police get there.
    http://www.scstatehouse.net/code/t23c031.htm
    SECTION 23-31-215. Issuance of permits. [ ...] (M) A permit issued pursuant to this section does not authorize a permit holder to carry a concealable weapon into a: [ ...] (9) church or other established religious sanctuary unless express permission is given by the appropriate church official or governing body;
    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    In Virginia the law specifically states that you are forbidden from carrying in a church while worship services are in progress... But, similar to the restaurant ban, you can carry with permission of the Pastor (or permission of the owner, if an employee, in the case of the restaurant ban...)

    I guess that leaves you in a position to develop a relationship with the Pastor so you can convince him to give you permission... depends on the Pastor's politics/ideals unfortunately... From my experience I would expect a 50/50 split on the Pastors I've known... but that is just a guess, since it has never come up... and my current job prevents me from getting to church very often...

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    My Pastor likes the idea that I'm armed. We know that evil doesn't stop at the church door and the Lord gives us wisdom and discernment so that we can protect ourselves.

    LoveMyCountry

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    tapper95 wrote:
    In Virginia the law specifically states that you are forbidden from carrying in a church while worship services are in progress... But, similar to the restaurant ban, you can carry with permission of the Pastor (or permission of the owner, if an employee, in the case of the restaurant ban...)

    I guess that leaves you in a position to develop a relationship with the Pastor so you can convince him to give you permission... depends on the Pastor's politics/ideals unfortunately... From my experience I would expect a 50/50 split on the Pastors I've known... but that is just a guess, since it has never come up... and my current job prevents me from getting to church very often...
    What is a "Good and sufficent reason"?

    It seems like a defense written into the law for those with good intentions (IANAL...)



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    In high school, a friend of mine was pretty much the most hardcore hippy, tree-hugger, peace-lover I have known. She didn't like guns, and told me that she thought there shouldn't be any guns in a perfect world. Yet, she strongly supported peoples' right to own and carry firearms because the world isn't perfect, and allowing people to defend themselves is a way of maintaining peace.

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