Campus Police

dng · Aug 23, 2007

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(JENKS, Okla.) Jenks Campus Police are in pretty unique company, becauseright nowit is the only campus police force in the state to go through advanced firearm trainingat theU.S. Shooting Academy. A step in the right direction..

Right nowthere are six officers watching over the students. Well, that's a small army right there! I'm sure they're armed with radios and pepper spray!

These officers just went through intense training for 16 hours 16 hrs of training, and parents should feel entirely confident their children are safe?,so they're ready for just about anything. That is a stretch! Anything includes quit a bit!

Officers say the training updated their skills,andit will help them be more prepared to keep kids safe.

The officers watch over 9700 kids at seven different campuses throughout the district. I wouldn't feel my kids are very safe with that kind of odds. How long is it going to take the rent a cops to show up? Train the teachers, and arm them. Still seems like a better solution to me. But that's just my 2 cents...

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=b384b4d2-b8a8-4df9-8e75-c50b31a0d890

HankT · Aug 23, 2007

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dngreer wrote:

Train the teachers, and arm them. Still seems like a better solution to me. But that's just my 2 cents...

Interesting idea.

How many teachers would you have trained and armed? I mean, what would be the total for the country?

dng · Aug 23, 2007

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I don't have the number of teachers in the US. I am saying that training teachers and professors in firearms, safety, marksmanship, and self defense, and then allowing them to have a way to defend themselves (a gun) and their students seems like a feasible solution.

Edit: I found a number: 6.2 million

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/facts_for_features_special_editions/001737.html

HankT · Aug 23, 2007

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dngreer wrote:

I don't have the number of teachers in the US. I am saying that training teachers and professors in firearms, safety, marksmanship, and self defense, and then allowing them to have a way to defend themselves (a gun) and their students seems like a feasible solution.

Edit: I found a number: 6.2 million

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/facts_for_features_special_editions/001737.html

So, you're saying that arming and training 6.2 million teachers is feasible?

That's a very interesting position...

dng · Aug 23, 2007

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More feasible than spending billions of dollars (and never actually succeeding) trying to secure all our nations schools with cameras, locks, loud speakers, email alerts, and campus shutdowns. School security will be the strongest when you can get right to the problem. What's closer to a classroom shooting than the people actually there, at the confrontation?

HankT · Aug 23, 2007

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dngreer wrote:

More feasible than spending billions of dollars (and never actually succeeding) trying to secure all our nations schools with cameras, locks, loud speakers, email alerts, and campus shutdowns. School security will be the strongest when you can get right to the problem. What's closer to a classroom shooting than the people actually there, at the confrontation?

What would it cost to train and arm 6.2 million teachers?

Would you also train and arm some school staff/employees too?

Ballpark, how much d'ya think?

dng · Aug 23, 2007

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Around here, the average cost of CCW training is $100 for 12 hrs. That would be $620,000,000 to train teachers in basic firearm knowledge. Double that if you like for added training. $1,240,000,000 would be the new price tag. But it would be interesting to see what we are spending nationwide to try to secure schools. I would guess it could be as much a 10 times that amount.

HankT · Aug 23, 2007

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dngreer wrote:

Around here, the average cost of CCW training is $100 for 12 hrs. That would be $620,000,000 to train teachers in basic firearm knowledge. Double that if you like for added training. $1,240,000,000 would be the new price tag. But it would be interesting to see what we are spending nationwide to try to secure schools. I would guess it could be as much a 10 times that amount.

You're saying that $200 worth of training to teachers who, as a group, are pitifully pacifistic left wingers and tremendously gun-averse would get them to a state of being able to handle an entire range of deadly threats by using deadly force themselves to neutralized those deadly threats?

That's an, um, interesting position.

How much would the liability insurance be for that plan?

And what about the extra pay for the teachers? How much you figurin' on that?

Have you even thought about this?

Legba · Aug 23, 2007

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My dad was both a WWII veteran and a professor, and I, for one, would not want him armed in defense of the students/staff/faculty. Not everyone ought to go about armed, and as a faculty brat, I would say that this is particularly true of professors. Way too many drunkards with bad eyesight and coordination (really - I'm not being funny). I'm not even counting the overly excitable chauvanists/zealots of whatever stripe. That's my experience/observation anyway. If they want to undertake going about armed individually, fine, but I think that's an unreasonable added burden to place upon them generally.

-ljp

dng · Aug 23, 2007

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Actually, yes, I have. I believe even a "pitifully pacifistic left wingers and tremendously gun-averse" type person would still know enough after even basic training to shoot a person attempting a massacre a classroom. Or here's another idea: (unlikely to happen, I know) include firearm training as part of the college education for a teacher when that person goes to college for a degree. That would lessen the expense for the government (even though they seem to have plenty of our money already that they constantly waste). I realize what I am talking about would require a change in basic philosophy on personal and school safety, and is unlikely to happen, but if tried, I believe it would work.

dng · Aug 23, 2007

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Legba wrote:

My dad was both a WWII veteran and a professor, and I, for one, would not want him armed in defense of the students/staff/faculty. Not everyone ought to go about armed, and as a faculty brat, I would say that this is particularly true of professors. Way too many drunkards with bad eyesight and coordination (really - I'm not being funny). I'm not even counting the overly excitable chauvanists/zealots of whatever stripe. That's my experience/observation anyway. If they want to undertake going about armed individually, fine, but I think that's an unreasonable added burden to place upon them generally.

-ljp

Good point. Some people who are teachers would not make the ideal candidates for carrying firearms.Maybe make it something optional for teachers, give them a chance to defend themselves if they so desire.

bayboy42 · Aug 23, 2007

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$100 for 12 hours of Firearms training......I'm moving to Ohio :lol:

HankT · Aug 23, 2007

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dngreer wrote:

Actually, yes, I have. I believe even a "pitifully pacifistic left wingers and tremendously gun-averse" type person would still know enough after even basic training to shoot a person attempting a massacre a classroom.

Interesting. How much extra pay you figuring?

And how about the guns? Which guns (Glock 19?) will you issue to the 6.2 million teachers? How much are you budgeting for the gun cost with your plan?

And what about the shooting ranges? How much will it cost to build the ranges so that the teaches can practice? And the ammo?

dngreer wrote:

Or here's another idea: (unlikely to happen, I know) include firearm training as part of the college education for a teacher when that person goes to college for a degree.

Hmm, how many years would it take for this brainstorm of a plan to kick in?

Hey, have you thought about this at all?

dng · Aug 23, 2007

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HankT wrote:

dngreer wrote:

Actually, yes, I have. I believe even a "pitifully pacifistic left wingers and tremendously gun-averse" type person would still know enough after even basic training to shoot a person attempting a massacre a classroom.

Interesting. How much extra pay you figuring? I'm not sure what you're asking.

And how about the guns? Which guns (Glock 19?) will you issue to the 6.2 million teachers? How much are you budgeting for the gun cost with your plan? Allow the teachers to carry their own handguns, if they don't have one, they can purchase one if they want to carry.

And what about the shooting ranges? How much will it cost to build the ranges so that the teaches can practice? And the ammo? Ranges? They could use the ranges that already exist. Ammo; I know that it could be different elsewhere, but around here, ammo is included in the training.

dngreer wrote:

Or here's another idea: (unlikely to happen, I know) include firearm training as part of the college education for a teacher when that person goes to college for a degree.

Hmm, how many years would it take for this brainstorm of a plan to kick in?

Hey, have you thought about this at all?

Hank, I said it's unlikely...And I already answered the other question, yes I have thought about it. What are your ideas for securing our schools?Not changing the subject by the way, I've already heard the "weak arguements will always direct the conversation in another direction". I realize this idea isnot likely to happen. I do believe, however, this might work ifgiven the chance.

dng · Aug 23, 2007

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bayboy42 wrote:

$100 for 12 hours of Firearms training......I'm moving to Ohio :lol:

Is Virginia more expensive? I take it I should be thankful for those rates?

Well, I guess that's pushing it; still frustrating even if it was only $5. I hate the idea of a "mother-may-I-carry" card.

HankT · Aug 23, 2007

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HankT wrote:

Interesting. How much extra pay you figuring?

dngreer wrote:

I'm not sure what you're asking.

How much more are you going to pay the 6.2 million teachers in salary for the new work condition of carrying a gun and being responsible for addressing deadly threats? You don't expect theteachersto do it for free?

Hey, have you thought about this?

P.S. Another thing, besides changing the subject, that people with a weak argument start to do: use weird formatting.

UTOC-45-44 · Aug 23, 2007

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HankT wrote:

dngreer wrote:

More feasible than spending billions of dollars (and never actually succeeding) trying to secure all our nations schools with cameras, locks, loud speakers, email alerts, and campus shutdowns. School security will be the strongest when you can get right to the problem. What's closer to a classroom shooting than the people actually there, at the confrontation?

Click to expand...

What would it cost to train and arm 6.2 million teachers?

Would you also train and arm some school staff/employees too?

Ballpark, how much d'ya think?

Cheaper than 6.2 million students dying !!!:cuss:

HankT · Aug 23, 2007

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UTOC-45-44 wrote:

HankT wrote:

dngreer wrote:

More feasible than spending billions of dollars (and never actually succeeding) trying to secure all our nations schools with cameras, locks, loud speakers, email alerts, and campus shutdowns. School security will be the strongest when you can get right to the problem. What's closer to a classroom shooting than the people actually there, at the confrontation?

Click to expand...

What would it cost to train and arm 6.2 million teachers?

Would you also train and arm some school staff/employees too?

Ballpark, how much d'ya think?

Click to expand...

Cheaper than 6.2 million students dying !!!:cuss:

Huh?

:uhoh:

dng · Aug 23, 2007

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HankT wrote:

HankT wrote:

Interesting. How much extra pay you figuring?

dngreer wrote:

I'm not sure what you're asking.

How much more are you going to pay the 6.2 million teachers in salary for the new work condition of carrying a gun and being responsible for addressing deadly threats? You don't expect theteachersto do it for free?

Hey, have you thought about this?

He saith unto him the third time, dngreer, son of Robert, hast thou thought about this?dngreer was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Hast thou thought about this? And he said unto him, HankT, thou knowesta couple ofthings; thou knowest that I have thought about this.HankT saith unto him,Protect thesheep. (That's John 21:17; dngreer's version)

P.S. Another thing, besides changing the subject, that people with a weak argument start to do: use weird formatting.

Now you don'tlike my formatting? You are too much, you crack me up! Is this any better?

dng · Aug 23, 2007

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With jurisdiction over 1,200 schools attended by more than a million students, the New York City Department of Education (DOE) is responsible for administering the largest school district in the country. In fact, its $6.9 billion budget consumes almost 25 percent of New York City's total budget of $28 billion.

http://www.captivasoftware.com/products/casestudies/casestudies_view.asp?wcs_id=82

If NY has $28 billion to spend, I think we could find some change laying around somewhere in our national school budget to pay for something like this.

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