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Thread: OC in Richmond

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    I was in Richmond two Fridays ago, and nearly bought (I forgot!) a Powerball ticket at the same Speedway station that the winning entry was sold--that could have been ME with $314 million extra dollars!

    Anyhow I did some open and some concealed carry while in town, no eyebrows were raised best of my knowledge.

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    Well... I live here in Richmond and I asked some of my friends on the SWAT Team about open carry and they said it is not legal in Indiana. I couldn't remember where I saw the posting online until just now.

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    I hope you told them they are wrong, I'd hate to meet up with the swat team when they think I'm doing something wrong.

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    Brian@ITC wrote:
    Well... I live here in Richmond and I asked some of my friends on the SWAT Team about open carry and they said it is not legal in Indiana. I couldn't remember where I saw the posting online until just now.
    Next time you see your friends be sure and have them show you the code that states OC is illegal. When they can't everyone will be the better for being educated.
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    http://www.ColoradoGunOwners.com

    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

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    ralphb72 wrote:
    I hope you told them they are wrong, I'd hate to meet up with the swat team when they think I'm doing something wrong.
    It's not illegal,but I do find it amazing how many LEO's are not on the same page when it comes to laws in general

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    Tony Soprano wrote:
    ralphb72 wrote:
    I hope you told them they are wrong, I'd hate to meet up with the swat team when they think I'm doing something wrong.
    It's not illegal,but I do find it amazing how many LEO's are not on the same page when it comes to laws in general
    Didn't you know? Laws are whatever the LEO says they are! They are in complete control and we are all just sheep who are expected to do as we're told at all times.


    If I were as misinformed about my professional career as most LEOs seem to be about theirs, I'd never be able to find work.

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    May I ask where you found that it was "legal" to carry open in Indiana? I have a "handgun law" book that someone published, but I have found some things that are not exactly correct in it.

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    Brian@ITC wrote:
    May I ask where you found that it was "legal" to carry open in Indiana? I have a "handgun law" book that someone published, but I have found some things that are not exactly correct in it.

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    It's legal because there's no statute that makes it illegal. In other words, you show us the law that says you can't. Laws aren't made to allow you to do something, only to disallow (or to modify an existing law). Frankly, I'm disconcerted by the fact that you don't understand this basic legal concept, given the links you provide in your sigline.

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    Well, I am not a lawyer, the main Indiana page on this site states:

    Indiana is not a traditional open carry state. However, with an Indiana permit, open carry is legal.

    As you know, we do not get a Concealed Weapons license, but a License to Carry a Handgun. This allows us to carry "on their person or in a vehicle, any handgun lawfully possed by Licensee" It does not say the handgun must be concealed, and there is no such charge in Indiana as "Failing to conceal a handgun" or any such thing.

    The Indiana Handgun Law (Second Edition) by Bryan Lee Ciyou, Esq (who is a lawyer who has studied Indiana handugn law for years) that I have is relitively new and is almost quiet on the issue. There is one thing in the Q/A section in the back says that Concealment is NOT part of the Indiana licencing statues, nor a penal requirement. I think that is about as close as you will get to something saying it IS legal. He is cautious in his approach and also adds that it is prudent to conceal even if not required etc.. He also references Indiana Code http://www.ai.org/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar47/ch2.html but I cannot find anything in there about concealing your handgun either.

    Hope that helps Brian. Did we go to school together? Your name sounds very familiar. I'm checking out your website now.

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    With all due respect your friends on the swat team need to get a clue. Those gun guys should know better.

    Brian@ITC wrote:
    Well... I live here in Richmond and I asked some of my friends on the SWAT Team about open carry and they said it is not legal in Indiana. I couldn't remember where I saw the posting online until just now.

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    It's legal because there's no statute that makes it illegal. In other words, you show us the law that says you can't. Laws aren't made to allow you to do something, only to disallow (or to modify an existing law). Frankly, I'm disconcerted by the fact that you don't understand this basic legal concept, given the links you provide in your sigline.
    I do not carry open so no, I don’t know the laws on it nor have I researched them. I understand the concept of it being legal or not. I SIMPLY ASKED a couple of officers what the law was and I posted what I was told. I cannot say anything about the guys on the SWAT Team not knowing the laws. I don’t know what they were told in the academy either.

    I don’t think that it is to one’s advantage to carry open. Keeping the gun concealed is to your advantage and THAT is what we teach! If you carry open, you could be the first person taken out in a robbery situation. Or, they may have you on the ground and your gun is exposed an they may take it away and then what good is the gun to you?!

    There is no such thing as a fair fight. And, if you carry open, you are telegraphing your options available to you! Not a good strategy where I am from!

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    Brian@ITC wrote
    I do not carry open so no, I don’t know the laws on it nor have I researched them. I understand the concept of it being legal or not.
    Your question was

    May I ask where you found that it was "legal" to carry open in Indiana?
    and not

    What makes you think open carry is more tactically wise than concealed carry?

    There are tactically sound reasons for both open and concealed carry, all of which have been discussed at great length in this forum, but none of it was relevant to your question.

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    Brian@ITC wrote:
    It's legal because there's no statute that makes it illegal. In other words, you show us the law that says you can't. Laws aren't made to allow you to do something, only to disallow (or to modify an existing law). Frankly, I'm disconcerted by the fact that you don't understand this basic legal concept, given the links you provide in your sigline.
    I do not carry open so no, I don’t know the laws on it nor have I researched them. I understand the concept of it being legal or not. I SIMPLY ASKED a couple of officers what the law was and I posted what I was told. I cannot say anything about the guys on the SWAT Team not knowing the laws. I don’t know what they were told in the academy either.

    I don’t think that it is to one’s advantage to carry open. Keeping the gun concealed is to your advantage and THAT is what we teach! If you carry open, you could be the first person taken out in a robbery situation. Or, they may have you on the ground and your gun is exposed an they may take it away and then what good is the gun to you?!

    There is no such thing as a fair fight. And, if you carry open, you are telegraphing your options available to you! Not a good strategy where I am from!

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    This is an argument that has been heard many times on this forum. But nobody ever provides any factual historical instances of this actually happening.

    Criminals are a cowardly breed that preys on the weak and the defenseless. They are looking for soft targets. If someone is looking to rob the store you are in, and they see a man with a gun on his hip, they will look elsewhere, or wait until you leave to commit thier robbery. If you CC then they have no visible deterant to committing a robbery and you end up in a situation where you either let the robbery happen or you are forced to pull your weapon. OC avoids this by letting the Criminal element that there are Dogs with Sharp Teeth here and not just Sheep, go hunt elsewhere.

    If the "shoot you cause you got a gun" theory actually held water, then cops would be dropping like flies as criminals shot them down in order to rob someplace, or they would be tackling cops to steal their weapons.

    If the "don't telegraph" theory was correct, then there would only be plainclothed police officers and no uniformed patrolmen. The presence of a VISIBLE threat to the criminal is usually enough to stop the criminal activity from starting in the presence of the OCer.

    The only instance that I can see an OCer being targeted first is the "Psyhco Killer" scenario. However, recent history shows that most of the Psycho Killer shooting sprees are planned for and executed at "Defenseless Victim Zones" aka "Gun Free Zones"

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    If the "shoot you cause you got a gun" theory actually held water, then cops would be dropping like flies as criminals shot them down in order to rob someplace, or they would be tackling cops to steal their weapons.
    I totally disagree with this statement.A lot ofcriminals do not enter a store prior to robbing and see who is armed. They may drive by to see if there is a Police car present and wait or go elsewhere.

    The question is, are YOU willing to bet your life on "the advantages" of OC or CC? If I were a criminal, I would enter a store looking for a potential threat such as someone with a gun on their side, someone wearinga "vest", or some sign of someone carrying concealed. Criminals are not stupid, they know what to look for and they may target you before you target them. Unless they walk in with their guns drawn, you don't know how many of them there are in the store, they too could be carrying concealed. And, if you have your gun on your side, they may come up behind you and put a gun to your head or just shoot. In either case, not good for you!!!

    If you are doing a proper job of concealed carry, NO ONE will know that you have a gun! So, don't believe for a minute that just because you OC that you are safe because you are now a primary focus of anyone who intends to do harm.

    As far as "tackling officers", it does happen and that is why 11%-14% of officers are killed with their own firearms. Need I say more?

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    "High Impact Training"
    Real world solutions to real life encounters

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    Brian@ITC wrote:
    The question is, are YOU willing to bet your life on "the advantages" of OC or CC?
    Yep. Especially the deterrent that OC provides. Just like the police cars parked in the parking lot, crooks are inclined to not go after hard (armed) targets.

    Bottom line:
    OC/CC is a crap shoot. One circumstance may be better handled with OC while another better handled with CC.
    Open carry is simply another option.
    Weigh your odds in your area, for that day, and carry appropriately.

    Why are you arguing CC on an "Open Carry" website anway???

    BTW:
    Brian, there are some folks with some questions over here:

    http://www.pafoa.org/forum/training-...ng-course.html


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    Thanks! I jus went there and there is a lot to answer!

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    Brian K. LaMaster
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    "High Impact Training"
    Real world solutions to real life encounters




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