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Thread: Va Tech Gun Ban

  1. #1
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    I saw this in the latest VCDL Alert.

    **************************************************

    5. VT now has a blanket firearms ban

    **************************************************



    Member Dave Yates researched, and found the new rule text. The text

    doesn't mention any punishment for visitors who fail to comply with

    removal request, but most likely it would be a trespass charge.



    If somehow the University discovers that a permit holder is carrying

    a gun (that should only happen if the permit holder is carelessness

    or stupid), the permit holder will be asked to remove the gun from

    the campus immediately. Failure to do so may lead to legal and/or

    disciplinary action.



    The areas where the ban is in effect is given in the wording of the

    below. Carry in parking lots, sidewalks, grassed areas, etc. look to

    be allowed.



    The applicable University text reads (in part):



    --



    2.2 Prohibition of Weapons The university employees, students, and

    volunteers, or any visitor or other third party attending a sporting,

    entertainment, or educational event, or visiting an academic or

    administrative office building or residence hall, are further

    prohibited from carrying, maintaining, or storing a firearm or weapon

    on any university facility, even if the owner has a valid permit,

    when it is not required by the individual's job, or in accordance

    with the relevant University Student Life Policies.



    Any such individual who is reported or discovered to possess a

    firearm or weapon on university property will be asked to remove it

    immediately. Failure to comply may result in a student judicial

    referral and/or arrest, or an employee disciplinary action and/or

    arrest.
    Can they even back this up at all? Being state property, at what point could they claim a trespassing charge, if at all? The campus police can ask me to remove my firearm all day long, but is there any point where they have legal standing to demand that I leave with it?

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    The proprietor's agent is frequently necessary to charge trespassing.

    Trespassing law needs to be examined as carefully as gun law. IANAL but often constructive notice must be made before trespassing can be charged and a sign don't cut it - often. It varies by jurisdiction.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth NRA *******

  3. #3
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Oh boy.. more targets. When does the next killing rampage start?


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    It's amazing to read a law like this. People intent on mass homicide break multiple laws.

    Gun bans create killing zones for homicidal maniacs.

    I say conceal carry everywhere you possibly can, all the time.

    People should definitely be carrying at VTech with this lame law they have.

    If guns are going to be banned, then it has to be total, with guards and metal detectors at all entrances to a building.


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    Total freaken BS. There is a more complete analysis on the GMU thread, but I still don't know if they can actually do something to an ordinary person standing at a campus bus stop with an AK over their shoulder.

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    Why not combine the two issues? It appears that VT is simply amending its operating procedure to the extent permitted by law (particularly the AG Opinion). GMU, on the other hand, seeks to promulgate a new regulation (administrative law) which has more "teeth" (similar to VCU). A better way would be to approach the General Assembly for clarification on the statutory authorities the colleges are using to publish regulations and how it conflicts with other statutory provisions (e.g. preemption). If you attempt to fight GMU here and VT there, you are in for a long series of battles with every university/college as they seek to have their own regulatory prohibitions. In other words, to use a morbid metaphor, strangle this baby in the crib.

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    Regular Member 638Fitta's Avatar
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    Has anyone received a response from a GMU (to Mr Hubble)email provided by VCDL? I did. I cut and pasted it below




    Please be advised that educational institutions of the Commonwealth are exempt from the Administrative Process Act pursuant to 2.2-4002.A.6. of the Code of Virginia. University regulations are instead adopted in conformity with the Virginia Register Act, 2.2-4100, et seq., of the Code of Virginia.

    No public hearing is required. The proposed regulation appeared in the August 6th Virginia Register of Regulations in conformity with the Virginia Register Act.

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    I did...



    I sent him a reply back asking him why he didn't want any public comment or other views on the subject. I also asked him what did he need to hide by not extending the comment period.



    Still waiting for an answer

  9. #9
    Regular Member 638Fitta's Avatar
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    [size=> I just highlighted, enlarged, put in bold type, and sent back.......][/size]

    > The General Assembly has reserved control of firearms to itself,

    > with the

    > only exceptions being for local control of hunting and discharge of

    > firearms. There is NO law that authorizes the University to regulate

    > firearms, especially for students and visitors.

    [size=> ][/size]

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    apjonas wrote:
    In other words, to use a morbid metaphor, strangle this baby in the crib.
    'Morbid' but apt. Better strangled in the crib than killed on campus.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed wher they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Oh boy.. more targets. When does the next killing rampage start?

    My 1st thought when I read this too. Can't they learn the 1st time around:?

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    taurusfan wrote:
    It's amazing to read a law like this. People intent on mass homicide break multiple laws.

    Gun bans create killing zones for homicidal maniacs.

    I say conceal carry everywhere you possibly can, all the time.

    People should definitely be carrying at VTech with this lame law they have.

    If guns are going to be banned, then it has to be total, with guards and metal detectors at all entrances to a building.
    This kind of law has been in force someplace else since 1976 and it has proved not to work.

    DC criminals are better armed than the police!

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    taurusfan wrote:
    It's amazing to read a law like this. People intent on mass homicide break multiple laws.

    Gun bans create killing zones for homicidal maniacs.

    I say conceal carry everywhere you possibly can, all the time.

    People should definitely be carrying at VTech with this lame law they have.

    If guns are going to be banned, then it has to be total, with guards and metal detectors at all entrances to a building.
    This kind of law has been in force someplace else since 1976 and it has proved not to work.

    DC criminals are better armed than the police!
    That a LEO would "admit" to that is kinda shocking but speaketh the Truth. I respect that.



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    John Lott,jr has some comments regarding VT

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,294954,00.html

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    http://johnrlott.tripod.com/op-eds/FoxNewMGLCMVPS082807.html The primary source.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    SNIP DC criminals are better armed than the police!
    He's just trying to lull us innocent, law-abiding citizens into complacency about militarized police. :P


    I haven't seen ballistic shields, armored water-cannon, pepper foggers, sniper rifles, grenade launchers, etc. in criminal hands in DC. Its been quite a while since I've even heard of a sub-machine gun or machine pistol being confiscated, much less actually used by a criminal. (we need a smiley for "smug look")


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    SNIP DC criminals are better armed than the police!
    He's just trying to lull us innocent, law-abiding citizens into complacency about militarized police. :P


    I haven't seen ballistic shields, armored water-cannon, pepper foggers, sniper rifles, grenade launchers, etc. in criminal hands in DC. Its been quite a while since I've even heard of a sub-machine gun or machine pistol being confiscated, much less actually used by a criminal. (we need a smiley for "smug look")

    OK.. I agree that we take away those items from the police. We need a fair playing field for everyone!!

    When playing cops and robbers for real.. The robbers should have just as good a chance to kill the cops too.

    Cops do not need any shields... it is their job to be shot at when attempting to stop an active shooter or be hit with rocks and bottles during a riot. They are getting paid to risk their life so let the people get their moneys worth.

    Instead of using a water cannon or pepper foggerto clear a street filled with a huge riot damaging cars and property or setting fires to buildings... the copsshould either let it continue and allow the people go move alongor risk injuryuseing their hands to go arrest people.

    Who really needs a sniper rifle. The cops should only use their handgun where they must get up close, under 25 yards, and take that head shot when someone has a hostage. Pick the best marksman so the hostage does not get hurt.

    Grenade launchers??? Not sure how many police departments actually shoot grenades at people. Maybe you are viewing tear gas launchers... And that goes back to riot controlor even barricades in a building.

    I say we abolish all law enforcement and go back to the days of the Wild Wild West...Just before they created US Marshals and Deputies to keep the peace and stop people from hurting others.

    We have 90 guns for every 100 people according to the news.The people should just take the law into their own hands and defend themselves as they deem appropriate. Then we can have the Hatfields and McCoys again.

    Law enforcement is out of control now with all their guns and gadgets!! The Citizens are feeling threatened.

    Actually... Some other citizens are feeling threatened by people OCing so I think Citizens should not be allowed to have guns and gadgets either.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and rocks & sticks and the truth.


    ::Insert Disappointed Smile Face Here::


  18. #18
    Regular Member 638Fitta's Avatar
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    Check out this article on the MSN homepage

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20501811/

    Are these the people whom are asking to be trusted to determine what is best for us andour children/ students safety? That information suddenly materialized? Anyone want to buy the Brooklyn Bridge? I'll give you a good deal on it!

  19. #19
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    SNIP DC criminals are better armed than the police!
    He's just trying to lull us innocent, law-abiding citizens into complacency about militarized police. :P


    I haven't seen ballistic shields, armored water-cannon, pepper foggers, sniper rifles, grenade launchers, etc. in criminal hands in DC. Its been quite a while since I've even heard of a sub-machine gun or machine pistol being confiscated, much less actually used by a criminal. (we need a smiley for "smug look")

    OK.. I agree that we take away those items from the police. We need a fair playing field for everyone!!
    He didn't suggest that, he merely pointed out that "DC criminals are better armed than the police!" is a bit of a stretch...
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

  20. #20
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    roscoe13 wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    SNIP DC criminals are better armed than the police!
    He's just trying to lull us innocent, law-abiding citizens into complacency about militarized police. :P


    I haven't seen ballistic shields, armored water-cannon, pepper foggers, sniper rifles, grenade launchers, etc. in criminal hands in DC. Its been quite a while since I've even heard of a sub-machine gun or machine pistol being confiscated, much less actually used by a criminal. (we need a smiley for "smug look")

    OK.. I agree that we take away those items from the police. We need a fair playing field for everyone!!
    He didn't suggest that, he merely pointed out that "DC criminals are better armed than the police!" is a bit of a stretch...
    Stating the criminals are better armed was said as a joke in regards to the DC gun ban. Are they better armed?? Maybe they are. DC cannnot tell you for sure since they cannot catch a cold. :P

    The topic of the police having unnecessary items has been discussed at length in several other threads.

    The items mentioned here been mentioned before. Since they are being mentioned again.. I chose to agree that the police should not have them... :Sarcasm:

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Stating the criminals are better armed was said as a joke in regards to the DC gun ban. Are they better armed?? Maybe they are. DC cannnot tell you for sure since they cannot catch a cold. :P

    The topic of the police having unnecessary items has been discussed at length in several other threads.

    The items mentioned here been mentioned before. Since they are being mentioned again.. I chose to agree that the police should not have them... :Sarcasm:
    I understand that I am entering a conversation laced with sarcasm, in an attempt to point out a rather obvious and serious point. I'll take my chances with that...

    It is irrelevant as to whether the criminals are better armed than the police or not, because the criminals don't prey on the police (or at least not primarily)...they prey on the unarmed citizenry. And I think we can all agree that the criminals are much better armed than "the people" of DC!

    Just as CHO was not better armed than the police, only the students and faculity of VT. Ironically enough he didn't choose to attack the police.

    And therein lies the real problem...

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    TEX1N wrote:
    I understand that I am entering a conversation laced with sarcasm, in an attempt to point out a rather obvious and serious point. I'll take my chances with that...

    It is irrelevant as to whether the criminals are better armed than the police or not, because the criminals don't prey on the police (or at least not primarily)...they prey on the unarmed citizenry. And I think we can all agree that the criminals are much better armed than "the people" of DC!

    Just as CHO was not better armed than the police, only the students and faculity of VT. Ironically enough he didn't choose to attack the police.

    And therein lies the real problem...
    Gun bans only keep them out of the hands of the people following the law.

    In regards to banning at VT..... it can only work if you check everyone as they enter the building.

    You cannot do it using the honor system... Only the honest people not wanting to kill others will be unarmed.

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    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20501811/

    Looks like they'resighting VTECH as key blame for the shootings. Very poor handling to say the least.

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