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Thread: Hampton Bay Days Once Again

  1. #1
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    I am active dute Air Force. One member of our unit received an email stating that NO WEAPONS!!! would be allowed in the festival area. The email also stated that there had been an "incident" last year. The member of my unit that received this email from the person coordinating volunteers at the festival and the email was not specific as to whether this ban was in effect for the volunteers or for the general public. Have they not learned their lesson?

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    AF Volunteers Only!!! I had a conversation with one of the Bay Days organizers just yesterday and he made fun of Norfolk cause Bay Days isn't following suit.


    Glock 9emem...check your private messages.


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    glock9emem wrote:
    I am active dute Air Force. One member of our unit received an email stating that NO WEAPONS!!! would be allowed in the festival area. The email also stated that there had been an "incident" last year. The member of my unit that received this email from the person coordinating volunteers at the festival and the email was not specific as to whether this ban was in effect for the volunteers or for the general public. Have they not learned their lesson?
    Post the email here for us to see.

  4. #4
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    Its an AF rule MIke...not a Bay Days rule!! Everybody idle down!

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    This is not an AF rule...This email came from one of the organizers for the event....And I cannot post the name of the individual beacause it was sent to a government email address

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    glock9emem wrote:
    This is not an AF rule...This email came from one of the organizers for the event....And I cannot post the name of the individual beacause it was sent to a government email address
    Huh? Why not? Just redact YOUR email address. We want this guy's name ASAP.

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    Trust me i wish i could but since it was sent to a government email address it is considered official business and i would have to go through my chain to get you the name.

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    The e-mail came from one of the AF organizers for volunteer activities....not from one of the Bay Days Committee Members (hence the government e-mail address). If he/she is saying that the Bay Days or the City of Hampton does not allow weapons, then they are mistaken. Like Mike Said, post the e-mail and redact the address.

  9. #9
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    I retract all my previous statements.

    Just spoke to glock9emem and the situation is different then what I interepreted from his first post. The Bay Days volunteer coordinator is informing volunteers (not acting in any kind of AF capacity)that no weapons are allowed.

    I'm following up with my Bay Days POC but it is a Friday at 1630 so there is a good chance hes gone for the day.

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    Well I had planned on attending this event today anyway. Some good classic rock bands are playing. I'm headed there in about an hour if anyone else would like to meet up.

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    I just returned from Bay Days. Apparentely the entire staff was breifed on Virginia firearms laws. I pulled into one of the parking garages where there were 3 attendants standing at the gate. I had my .40 S&W Sigma sitting on the dash. The first attendant came to my passenger window and asked if I had a parking permit. I told him I hadn't. He informed me this particular parking garage was for permit holders only. By this time there was another car behind me in the same situation and he went behind my vehicle to talk to the man behind me. As this was happening one of the other attendants came to my driver side window and on his way over I saw him staring at my dashboard. I thought he was looking at my pistol but was in fact looking for a parking pass. He asked if I had a permit which I thought he was referring to a CCW. I told him I didn't need one as long as it was out in plain sight. He laughed and told me he was referring to a parking permit but then told me they preferred if I carried concealed. I let him know I didn't have a concealed permit and he seemed fine with that. As I was leaving I heard him telling the third attendant the laws. So I finally find a parking spot and go and listen to Grand Funk Railroad for about an hour. On my way out I passed a group of two officers one of which looked down at my sidearm as I was passing him, looked back up at me and said how ya doin' buddy? So all in all a success for passing the word to police officers about the Virginia open carry laws.

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    Wow! Thanks, Glock!

    Sometimes something negative has to happen in order to spread the word and end up positive.

    The Council may not be particularly responsive, but I doubt the Police department enjoyed the initial news story with the quote about officers not knowing the law. I bet they all do, now.



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    glock9emem wrote:
    Trust me i wish i could but since it was sent to a government email address it is considered official business and i would have to go through my chain to get you the name.
    Government email is subject to FOIA - it is the PUBLIC's business.

    Redact the sender's name if you want, but publish this email!

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    Mike wrote:
    glock9emem wrote:
    Trust me i wish i could but since it was sent to a government email address it is considered official business and i would have to go through my chain to get you the name.
    Government email is subject to FOIA - it is the PUBLIC's business.

    Redact the sender's name if you want, but publish this email!
    Must be some internal rule because I work for the feds too and we have no stipulation like that. Surely you get jokes to your government address? Can you not pass those along without official approval as well?

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    I can understand not forwarding "Government Business" as it could be for official use only.

    But if you receive an email that has NOTHING to do with the government.. with the exception that it was sent to a Government email address... There is no restriction in what you do with it.

    If this were the case.. you are already in violation for just talking about it here.

    As mentioned already.... Just because you get SPAM... does not mean it is now an OFFICIAL EMAIL that has restrictions attached. The email is not classified so you are not compelled to keep the contents a secret.

    Cut and past the messagefor crying out loud!


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    LEO 229 wrote:
    I can understand not forwarding "Government Business" as it could be for official use only.
    Technically, "For Official Use Only" is not a legal federal FOIA classification and such records are still the public's business - can't be withheld under FOIA request.

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    FOUO is and of itself, determines nothing in the context of FOIA. FOIA requests are made for TS and beyond materials (which are often relased, at least in part). While FOIA mandates the release of materials that are not exempted, it does not forbid release of materials (in the general scheme). There are other laws such as the Privacy Act, those pertaining to classification that in addition to FOIA exempted materials may prevent release (which may or not be mandatory - sometimes even FOIA exempted materials are released for policy reasons).

    The fact that a document was viewed, held in or printed from government equipment does not by itself give it protection. It is the content which controls. Of course there are rules against using government time and/or equipment for reading or printing for private purposes - but that is a different issue.

    Was the information (including the name) made available to the general public or some subset thereof? Are there any Privacy Act considerations? If not and you were authorized to read the mail (or keep a copy), simply memorize the name and send it at the public library (provided there are no other restrictions).

  18. #18
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    Privacy Act applies. The woman has affiliation with the AF and I cannot release her information without her permission.

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    glock9emem wrote:
    So I finally find a parking spot and go and listen to Grand Funk Railroad for about an hour...
    Man, you are OLD!

    Hmmm, I may still have those GFR albums around here somewhere....



    glock9emem wrote:
    Privacy Act applies. The woman has affiliation with the AF and I cannot release her information without her permission.
    We-want-the-e-mail!

    We-want-the-e-mail!

    We-want-the-e-mail!

    We-want-the-e-mail!

    We-want-the-e-mail!



    Ahh, keep it secret if you want...but there's no really good reason not to disclose the contents (without names)...

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    Mike wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    I can understand not forwarding "Government Business" as it could be for official use only.
    Technically, "For Official Use Only" is not a legal federal FOIA classification and such records are still the public's business - can't be withheld under FOIA request.
    I would agree..

    In that case he could not just GIVE IT to us. We would need to make an official request.

    But since it is NOT business related.. there is no question that he can do so without asking his chain of command for any permission.

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    glock9emem wrote:
    Privacy Act applies. The woman has affiliation with the AF and I cannot release her information without her permission.
    This does not matter unless she attached that default text at the bottom of the email stating "it is not to be forwarded and shall be deleted if received by anyone other than the intended recipient."

    Just because I am affiliated with my department does not mean I cannot forward ANY email I receive. There is no "privacy act" attached to an email I receive.

  22. #22
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    I'm begining to wonder if there ever WAS an e-mail.:?

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    Hey! Just got back from a day at Bay Day. Got a good story. I shall title it, "what should always happen".

    My brother and I were walking around for about 15 mins when 2 LEOs tapping on my arm and asked to speak with me. At this point, I really wanted to know what was going to be said. This is my side of the story. Since it was relatively short, I'll just be brief.

    Cops come up and ask me to put the gun back in the car. I tell them "no" and ask them why. They say it's because Bay Day rules state there is to be no weapons in Bay Day areas. I remind them of state preemption and ask for a supervisor. He says he is the supervisor and I then ask him to call the magistrate.

    At this point there are 6 cops - 2 that I was talking to, 2 other at my 8 o'clock and 2 more at my 4 o'clock, however they were about 21 ft away.

    The guy then asks for my ID, which I tell him no. He then says they will charge me will "obstruction of justice". I say, "great, that means money for me", because at this point I'm annoyed. He then asks do I even have ID. I tell him no, that I left my ID someplace because something like this might happen. The other LEO asks for my name, I tell him I'm not going to give it. He then replies "sir, your just stacking up the charges". I rebuttal, "good, that means even more money".

    The LEO in charge gets on the phone with a Lt, and steps away for 2 mins. Comes back and tells me that he wishes me a good day and if I had to use it, just make sure I'm in the right. I tell him "okay, you guys be safe" and we just walk away.

    The whole thing took about 10 mins of my life, so I wasn't too upset. So..............anyone want to join me at Bay Day tomorrow?????

  24. #24
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    SP101 wrote:
    I'm begining to wonder if there ever WAS an e-mail.:?
    Who cares. The point is that the event management forbid their workers (paid or volunteer is irrelevant) to carry guns while working at the event. Even if we think that's a stupid idea, they were well within their rights to do so. They didn't try to restrict the general public from carrying guns, which they apparrently knew they couldn't legally do. What's all the fuss about?

    Sorry for being on-topic
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

  25. #25
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    Dan called to relate his story to me, and I was surprised to hear the Hampton Police still don't have the story straight. An editorial in the Daily Depressed on Aug 10th said "Hampton wanted a gun ban at Bay Days but realized in 2005 that the state had made it powerless". [How utterly appalling...less power for the government; more power for the people. What is the world coming to? - JvB ] Its kind of disturbing that the folks at the papers know the law, but the police don't.

    Either that, or the police DO know the law, and are just trying to intimidate people by acting as if OC is forbidden. The LEO suggested Dan would be charged with obstruction of justice for not showing ID [which citizens are NOT required to carry at Bay Days], but in the end, no charges were filed. Very interesting.......

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