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Thread: Carrying @ UVA Football Game

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    So my Dad brought up a good point last night, can the Universtiy of Virginia prohibit open or concealed carry at Scott stadium when the stadium is state property?

    I would think no, because it's state property, but I have honestly never tried. Concealed carry would not be a problem, because the private security cannot touch you or pat you down. However I belive open carry would cause me to get stopped. I do not remember it everybeing posted at the entrance and it is not posted on the webpage under prohibited items: http://tinyurl.com/27tj6f



    Any advice?




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    24 hours and no one has any advice?

    Bump.

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    Can't find the code at the monent but.... I believe that state colleges are permitted to regulate firearms in buildings and at events. They can not stop you from carrying on grounds, but taking a gun into a dorm would be a no no. As far as CC is concerned.... I'm pretty sure Scott stadium still serves beer.

    As much as I would like to be armed while sitting on the hill getting harassed by drunk students, I think I'll leave the gun in the car safe.

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    Beer. Boy would that make some of the UVA games eaiser to swallow!

    Alcohol is prohibited in Scott Stadium, so CC would probably be okay, however I really don't want to test my luck and violate some obscure, not well known law.



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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    muzz3256 wrote:
    So my Dad brought up a good point last night, can the Universtiy of Virginia prohibit open or concealed carry at Scott stadium when the stadium is state property?

    I would think no, because it's state property, but I have honestly never tried. Concealed carry would not be a problem, because the private security cannot touch you or pat you down. However I belive open carry would cause me to get stopped. I do not remember it everybeing posted at the entrance and it is not posted on the webpage under prohibited items: http://tinyurl.com/27tj6f



    Any advice?


    My understanding is that by state law only VCU can ban everyone from carrying. Non-university related individuals can carry. VATech used to deny students, faculty and employees from carrying but for instance I could being unrelated to Tech. Since the shooting they have changed that rule to include everyone, UVA may have also. But I believe this is a violation of the law, one that I'm thinking of contacting VCDL about. To me even students should be allowed since they are patrons and not employees of the state. And many students are grad and so more mature. Many of the students that were shot were older. Plus you have to be 21 to conceal carry anyway. I'm not sure I'd want to OC on campus, but...... if people were so irrational about guns it wouldn't be an issue.

    The bottom line is at Tech, and most likely UVA too, all they can do is ask you to leave. Read the rule at the link below. I think they limit their rules to this because they know they do not have the authority to deny carrying. It's a sneaky, underhanded method of getting their way even though they know they're wrong. If the rule allowed the university police to arrest you then as Danbus said while being faced with false arrest, "Great, that means money for me" :^). They just hope you don't know your rights and therefore comply voluntarily.

    Tech's policy on "safety" can be found at this link (the relevant section is 2.2); http://www.policies.vt.edu/5616.pdf

    UVA should have a written policy too. Call their legal department if you can't find it online.

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    See, this is what I thought! The may try to enforce it, knowing that they are wrong, just to see if I'm submissive or if I argue the point. I may try it next time, carry my 1911 because I can easily conceal or open carry it.

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    http://www.oag.state.va.us/OPINIONS/2006opns/05-078.pdf

    If you are not a student, faculty, etc., go for it. Under the Dillon rule, the university only has the authority granted it explicity by statute in the law that creates the university. For VT, look at Code of Virginia, 23-114, and 23-122 (IINAL, haven't looked up UVa., but must be similar). VT explicitly has the authority to build roads, but must go back to the General Assembly for permission to build a new building because that is NOT in the list of priviledges they are granted - see how it works?

    Obviously tensions are high post Cho, but the worst they can do is tell you to leave. CC until that sissy team from C'ville is loosing anyway then uncover and see what happens . Now that I think about it, uncover after the game and hang around for the post-game show. If they kick you out you can get a refund of the ticket price.

    Seriously though, be sure to have the statutes with you, including the ones for disorderly conduct. The gun owner's guide on the legal page is a good place to start. When you attract attention make sure you read the statute to the (real) officer, remind them that they have just had a refresher in the law, and by harassing you further they may be violating your rights under color of law. That would be a felony on their part. Do not be an ass at this point. Lastly, bring along a friend or two with video cameras or at least voice recorders on their phones. You do not want this to be case of your word vs. the cop.

    Enjoy, good luck.

    C.

    Also, see this http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/4456.html thread. What applies to one state school applies to all (except VCU, where an explicit law makes it different).

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    muzz3256 wrote:
    So my Dad brought up a good point last night, can the Universtiy of Virginia prohibit open or concealed carry at Scott stadium when the stadium is state property?

    I would think no, because it's state property, but I have honestly never tried. Concealed carry would not be a problem, because the private security cannot touch you or pat you down. However I belive open carry would cause me to get stopped. I do not remember it everybeing posted at the entrance and it is not posted on the webpage under prohibited items: http://tinyurl.com/27tj6f



    Any advice?
    Bottom line, it is not unlawful to carry there.

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    Yeah, thats the idea I am getting! One of my co-workers says that his "interperation of the opinion" is that they can prohibit it at events for the sake of safety, but no other time.


    The gun owner's guide on the legal page is a good place to start.
    Where is this? I can't seem to find it.

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    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum61/3356.html

    And the perennial argument is, "whose safety is improved by disarming me?" Given the stellar citizenship of CHP holders, one could argue that only the safety of people generally agreed to be in need of getting shot.

    The argument itself is BS and a trap. This is about the law, not someone's perceived safety - we have to pull it back to that. Talking with a cop who is confronting you seems to be the wrong time to discuss the matter (it sure didn't help me :?).

    Is there any 'public safety' statute or precedent that gives people running a public gathering the power to disarm you? I have seen no such thing, but Roanoke City thinks it exists (FWIW, the bill from 2005 that would have let CHP holding adults carry on campus would have let the school keep you out of sporting events. I'm kind of glad it failed, we can do better).



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    I'd be happy to be the camera-phone-toting guy! Nowthat i think about it... I think I'm willing to carry as well. When is the next home game exactly?

    UVA police definitely know the laws about OC on grounds, as I have encountered many and never had any problem. The police presence at games is huge though, and also includes city officers (whom i have had OC related contact with in the past.)

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    Damn, I'm starting to like you UVa. guys after all.

    When I get up nerve to go ride the bus around the VT campus with a rifle over my shoulder then I will start bragging again. The wife would kill me.

    C.

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    Yeah, the police presence is everywhere during a game, all 3 local police depts, state police, VCU Campus police, the state police of the state that the visiting team is from, VA ABC Agents, RMC Security, a few more I think. All in all, a little over 600 police officers at every home game, I know that it is mandatory overtime for every officer in Albemarle County, City of Charlottesville, and UVA Police.

    I'm not really worried about this, I really don't think that they have ever encountered someone trying to open carry into the stadium, but I could be wrong. Guess the only way to find out the solid answer here is to try it.

    9/22 is the next home game vs. Georgia Tech, then 9/29 vs. Pittsburgh.

    The co-worker metioned above, told me that Scott Stadium is a very safe enviroment, and there is no possible reason to need a gun there. My first rebuke to that was, why are there over 600 armed police officers there, second, why are there and average of over 250 assualt arrests every game, both misdemeanor and felony? The student population is a very rowdy group, he advised me to just stay away from the student section. He must not know that the students, like grazing cattle, roam everywhere in the confines.



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    You are so right. If it wasn't dangerous the cops either wouldn't be there or would just carry a whistle.

    Remember, when Cho started phase two of his massacre there was a VT police captain in the next building briefing the administration on what was going on (DUOH).

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    CPerdue wrote:
    Damn, I'm starting to like you UVa. guys after all.

    When I get up nerve to go ride the bus around the VT campus with a rifle over my shoulder then I will start bragging again. The wife would kill me.

    C.
    Boy, you should just go ahead a do it and have the same balls as our Danbus. I may even join you although I've only got a lonely .22 rifle, nothing big scary an black (plasitc that is).

    I'm about to OC on Tech campus to teach them a lesson about establishing campus policies that fly in the face of state law (read my other posts). Want to join me? I need a cameraman, you do have a video camera???

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    Digital camera that holds 47 min of footage!

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    muzz3256 wrote:
    Digital camera that holds 47 min of footage!
    Now, I'm not trying to get into a competition between those OCers at UVA and those at VaTech but I'm sure our camera can hold a lot more than 47 minutes of video :^). Or are you trying to see who can get arrested first????

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    This is a digital camera made for taking still photos, but has a 6 mega pixel video mode too. I don't have a camecorder.

    A little frinedly competition is healthy!!

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    muzz3256 wrote:
    A little frinedly competition is healthy!!
    Very interesting! A new UVA vs. VT competition. Who can establish OC and CC rights first?...... But how to judge the event? First to jail? First to $1M in punitive damages? First to full OC and CC rights for students and visitors? Tell me, what are the rules???? I think we can work together, no matter................:^)

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    VATech used to deny students, faculty and employees from carrying but for instance I could being unrelated to Tech. Since the shooting they have changed that rule to include everyone, UVA may have also.
    Neplusultra - can you site where this new rule is published and or what legal standing is being used to enforce it?

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    muzz3256 wrote:
    Beer. Boy would that make some of the UVA games eaiser to swallow!

    Alcohol is prohibited in Scott Stadium, so CC would probably be okay, however I really don't want to test my luck and violate some obscure, not well known law.

    I am pretty sure they still sell beer at the concession stands. Outside BYOB alcohol is prohibited. Beer sold at a concession stand is not the same as the restaurant ban. Someone please find the code on this as I know i have seen it here before.

    Also that has to be the funniest statement i have heard in a long time. As a class of 97 graduate of Mr. Jefferson's University I never found alcohol to be difficult to obtain within the confines of Scott Stadium. I remember Bobby Bowden hop skipping an exploding Budweiser can that landed at his feet and Clemson players ducking pint flasks of Southern Comfort, Jack Daniels and Jim Bean. I havebeen known to walk down to one of the stores at the corner of JPA and JPA ext and buy more beer, stop in at Beta drink some of their beerand go back to the game and drink the beer i just bought. Also the fourth year fifth(last home game of the year)is a fun sport to watch the drunk coeds roll down the hill. With the advent of all these camel back hydration systems i would think alcohol would be even easier to bring in than ever.

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    bayboy42 wrote:
    VATech used to deny students, faculty and employees from carrying but for instance I could being unrelated to Tech. Since the shooting they have changed that rule to include everyone, UVA may have also.
    Neplusultra - can you site where this new rule is published and or what legal standing is being used to enforce it?
    I quoted the source earlier here;

    Tech's policy on "safety" can be found at this link (the relevant section is 2.2); http://www.policies.vt.edu/5616.pdf

    They have no standing IMO but I want to check with VCDL first before I OC on campus.

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    I am 100% positive that they do not sell beer. I worked concessions for 2 years, most of the concession stands are run by high school orginizations and youth groups. While you cannot buy alcohol on site, so many people sneek it in the stadium so it is not difficult to find. The ABC agents walk around to find underage drinking, but if you are caught with alcohol inside the stadium, you will be thrown out. Also, the page that I listed in the first post states the alcohol is prohibited.

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    muzz3256 wrote:
    The co-worker metioned above, told me that Scott Stadium is a very safe enviroment, and there is no possible reason to need a gun there. My first rebuke to that was, why are there over 600 armed police officers there, second, why are there and average of over 250 assualt arrests every game, both misdemeanor and felony? The student population is a very rowdy group, he advised me to just stay away from the student section. He must not know that the students, like grazing cattle, roam everywhere in the confines.

    Things must have changed a lot since I was there mid 80s.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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