This is not the NRA I want!

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When Lazarus died, Jesus went to visit the sisters of Lazarus. Jesus kept referring to Lazarus' condition as "sleep." Finally, Jesus spoke more bluntly. He said Lazarus was dead.

Now, let ME speak more bluntly. Forget what YOU "think" the NRA (negotiate rights away) is saying, let me clear the air. "Law-abiding" and "lawful purposes" are dangerous doublespeak, something the NRA excels at, almost as good as conning suckers to turn over their hard-earned money. If you or anyone else decides to use YOUR firearms to correct a long train of abuses, don't count on the NRA to side with you. I can ASSURE you the NRA would not agree with Thomas Jefferson and others as to the need for the 2nd amendment. On that Great Day, you will stand opposite the NRA. Anyone who dares to use a weapon to exercise what Jefferson describes as a right, no, a DUTY, will be a "felon" in the eyes of the NRA.

God save (what's left of) the Republic.

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I'm pretty much tuned into what Mark is saying. That's why a long time ago I stopped calling myself a "law-abiding citizen" (a LACky) and started calling myself a "peacable citizen" (a PeCker?).

Depending on what the law is (can you say you ALWAYS drive the speed limit?), I may or may not be "law-abiding", but I always strive to be peacable.

The latter is moral, the former is just doing what you're told.

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Tomahawk wrote:

I'm pretty much tuned into what Mark is saying. That's why a long time ago I stopped calling myself a "law-abiding citizen" (a LACky) and started calling myself a "peacable citizen" (a PeCker?).

Depending on what the law is (can you say you ALWAYS drive the speed limit?), I may or may not be "law-abiding", but I always strive to be peacable.

The latter is moral, the former is just doing what you're told.

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Depends on the definition. If you want to define LAC as "obeys all laws at all times," then few people would be LACs. But that's a strained definition. It's silly, actually. It doesn't work.

The term LAC is a good one because it communicates to most people what is being referred to--and what is not.And it communicates it in compact form.

"Peaceable citizen" is vague, bland and somewhat artificial. Not too many people are 100% peacable either...so the same silly criticism of LAC would apply to PeCker.

I suppose it is cute, though, when referring to residents of Green Bay, WI.

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Tomahawk wrote:

I'm pretty much tuned into what Mark is saying. That's why a long time ago I stopped calling myself a "law-abiding citizen" (a LACky) and started calling myself a "peacable citizen" (a PeCker?).

Depending on what the law is (can you say you ALWAYS drive the speed limit?), I may or may not be "law-abiding", but I always strive to be peacable.

The latter is moral, the former is just doing what you're told.

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I hadn't really thought about that... I think I'll start referring to myself as a "peaceable citizen".

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Aside from Mr. Jacksons comments ( who is up for reelection next year, and I doubt he will be voted in ), most of the complaints with the NRA pertain to "the all or nothing attitude" and begging for money. All or nothing gets you a lot more ofNOTHING than it does ALL. Are you people under the impression that the NRA can walk into Congress,Make demands or threaten to walk out !I would think most of us here have been around long enough to know what kinda BS it takes to get something through Congress.

Do you have CC in your state? Who helped you with that? Do you have to worry about getting sued by the family of some lowlife that you shot after he broke into your house and threatened your wife and daughter? NO, who helped you with that? Did the Governor of your state sign a bill saying that you would never be disarmed after a state of emergency is declared due to some type of disaster? Yes,Who helped you with that. Can you take your new gun home after a 20 minute background check or do you have to wait 5 to 7 days? Who helped you with that? All or nothing would still have you waiting a week! The list goes on and on and on, but I think I made my point.

As far as asking for money is concerned, you pay annual membership dues of $35, for that you receive a monthly publication, insurance to help you or your familyout if you get killed or injuredwhen your hunting or at a shooting event,$1,000 in coverage to help replace or repair a lost, damaged or stolen firearm, oh,, and don't forget the hat. Thats a pretty good box of toys for $35.So if you don't think your going to get some letters asking for $50 to help pay for that stuffI listed in the previous paragraph, your pretty damn naive! If you don't want them to send you that stuff, pick up the phone, call them and tell them to stop sending it to you. Or you could just piss and moan and continue to enjoy your freedoms and rights that the NRA helps protect.

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Ahhhhhhhhh, Wayne La Pierre's clone has surfaced !!!! All or nothing cuts to the chase. All or nothing seperates the freemen from the slaves. All or nothing makes it clear you are not someone to be violated. I am so thankful I am not like you.

If earlier Americans HAD walked into congress, without the assistance of the NRA (negotiate rights away) and made it ABUNDANTLY clear there would be NO NRA-styled "compromises," we wouldn't be having this discussion. It doesn't take BS to get anything accomplished in congress, it takes balls, something most Amerikans lack. Just look at the recent immigration amnesty bill. It wasn't some lobbying group that put an end to that nonsense, it wasn't a "compromise" arrangement, it was CLEAR, DIRECT, TO THE POINT WORDS which stopped this crap. Some congressional offices termed these words as threats. Did you not see a visibly shaken Nancy Pelosi on C-SPAN? Do you think it was the offer of another "compromise" that shook her all the way down to her pantyhose? Naw..............doubt it seriously.

Thanks to the NRA and others, we now have all these hoops to jump through, the waiting period, etc, etc, etc. Yea, thank you, NRA, for helping to erode our freedoms. For that I am thankful. News flash: the NRA hasn't protected crap. Just like Jesse Jackson, they THRIVE off of controversy and a struggle. If gun rights WERE to be restored FULLY, the NRA would cease to exist. Along with it's demise, Wayne and friends would no longer have the bogeyman of losing our rights to con people out of their money. If providing insurance is their goal, hell, let 'em open an insurance agency. But quit masquerading as a gun rights organization. Go read EVERY piece of gun legislation where a right was lost/compromised. Bet you'll find the fingerprints of the NRA all over it. The truly sad part is how many Amerikans are foolish enough to swallow their propaganda. Bet you voted for BOTH Bushes.............

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What have you done?

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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but personally I believe the "Negotiate Rights Away" acronym is not even close to a valid acronym for NRA. They helped convert many states from "may issue" or "probably won't issue" CCW states into "shall issue" states. They have also helped many states get Castle Doctrine to allow me to defend myself outside my home, and to protect us from family members of criminals. They have fought for the laws that make it a criminal offense to take away guns illegally like what was done after Katrina. That is only a partial list of proactive things they've done to GAIN ground on the 2nd Amendment just in the last 10 years. The list of gun control laws that the NRA has fought & buried in individual states & DC is practically endless.

For me my small contribution of NRA dues is less than a couple of boxes of Ammo that I go through in a single hour at the range, and money well spent. I also support other gun rights organizations like the SAF as I believe the more groups there are fighting for our rights the better, but the NRA is one group I plan to always support as it is the 100 pound gorilla that most polititians recognize represents millions of voting Americans. For me NRA stands for National Rifle Association, and I'm proud to be a member.

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Throughout history, there have ALWAYS been certain "men" who, for a number of reasons, cannot accept/admit/recognize the truth. It's just not "in them" to do so.

Someone once said "don't confuse me with the facts." So I won't.

I prefer the wise words of the late Nathan Earl Miller.

"Take 'em off the streets, give 'em books, try and try to teach 'em how to read and they use the pages for toilet paper." Ole' Earl must have met some of this bunch here.

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Amendment II
A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.



We first must define what they ( the founding fathers) meant by what a militia was. During that time all well bodied men between 16 and 55 where considered to be in the militia. They would fight with weapons that they owned not provided by a government. One of the duties of the militias was to defend the country from foreign invaders, and to be able to revolt if necessary from a unjust government. The right to bear arms was more than just the right to hunt. It was also a responsibility to defend the country.

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Throughout history, there have ALWAYS been certain "men" who, for a number of reasons, cannot tell us what they can do for us, but choose to tell us what is wrong with everybody else( alot like liberals)while never doing anything productive them selves.

If you have to talk down about someone to make yourself look good,chances are, you don't have a hell of a lot to offer,so I ask again,

What have you done?

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1st freedom wrote:

...men" who, for a number of reasons, cannot tell us what they can do for us, but choose to tell us what is wrong with everybody else( alot like liberals)

If you have to talk down about someone to make yourself look good...

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Hi Pot, meet Kettle...

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The NRA (negotiate rights away) is NOT a gun RIGHTS organization. They are a hunting/sportsmen organization. NOTE: they do NOT advocate what this site promotes: the open carry of arms. When's the last time you saw Wayne LaPierre openly carrying? That's what I thought. All the NRA wants to do(and does) is create this huge, expensive bureaucracy to provide jobs for all their friends and family and enrich themselves in the process. Don't agree with that? Ask Wayne to take a 50% cut in pay. Tell me how that turns out. Don't think the NRA has negotiated rights away? Take a look at ANY federal legislation involving handguns, rifles, shotguns, so-called "assault" weapons, the NRA was there in the thick of it. Read for yourself and tell me if they agreed to a compromise which resulted in less rights. The truth always offends. So be it.

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:

The NRA (negotiate rights away) is NOT a gun RIGHTS organization. They are a hunting/sportsmen organization. NOTE: they do NOT advocate what this site promotes: the open carry of arms. When's the last time you saw Wayne LaPierre openly carrying? That's what I thought. All the NRA wants to do(and does) is create this huge, expensive bureaucracy to provide jobs for all their friends and family and enrich themselves in the process. Don't agree with that? Ask Wayne to take a 50% cut in pay. Tell me how that turns out. Don't think the NRA has negotiated rights away? Take a look at ANY federal legislation involving handguns, rifles, shotguns, so-called "assault" weapons, the NRA was there in the thick of it. Read for yourself and tell me if they agreed to a compromise which resulted in less rights. The truth always offends. So be it.

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Mark, I've seen a constant stream of posts very similar to this. I agree that the NRA is not perfect, they could do more to fight for gun rights than they do.But is it possible that it would be wise to direct and channel your energy and anger towards the Brady campaign, M. Bloomberg, or the other prominent anti-gun groups out there, rather than vehemently denouncing the NRA, a group that is at least not fighting against gun rights? Just a thought...

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My main complaint, even beyond compromises and such, is that the NRA is reactive and not proactive. Most of their policy battles are won after the anti's try to make gun laws more restrictive. At the end of the day, the NRA is just compensating for the anti-gun policies that are proposed, and there is a net of about the same level of gun control as before. So, in the strictest definition, the NRA does defend our rights... but we have so few that they really need to be pushing for new legislation.

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imperialism2024 wrote:

My main complaint, even beyond compromises and such, is that the NRA is reactive and not proactive. Most of their policy battles are won after the anti's try to make gun laws more restrictive. At the end of the day, the NRA is just compensating for the anti-gun policies that are proposed, and there is a net of about the same level of gun control as before. So, in the strictest definition, the NRA does defend our rights... but we have so few that they really need to be pushing for new legislation.

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I can agree with that!

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T-RaV wrote:

1st freedom wrote:

...men" who, for a number of reasons, cannot tell us what they can do for us, but choose to tell us what is wrong with everybody else( alot like liberals)

If you have to talk down about someone to make yourself look good...

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Hi Pot, meet Kettle...

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T-RaV,

If you read earlier post,I did say where I felt the NRA was productive,I didn't spend my time bashing MARK EDWARD while neglecting to post positives on my point of view. However,again I ask the question, no bashing,no bad mouthing,just a simple question to Mark Edward,

What do you do?

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imperialism2024 wrote:

My main complaint, even beyond compromises and such, is that the NRA is reactive and not proactive. Most of their policy battles are won after the anti's try to make gun laws more restrictive. At the end of the day, the NRA is just compensating for the anti-gun policies that are proposed, and there is a net of about the same level of gun control as before. So, in the strictest definition, the NRA does defend our rights... but we have so few that they really need to be pushing for new legislation.

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Proactive towards laws that arn't in place ?? I'm not sure what you mean, unless you are refering to something like the Emergancy Powers Act. If thats the case, I guess there doing what your asking

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1st freedom wrote:

Do you have CC in your state? Who helped you with that?

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NVCDL, from what the oldtimers tell me.