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Thread: Open Carry in a Mall

  1. #1
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    ive been open carrying for about a month now and the only place im skeptical of doing so is in the malls because of the high capacity of people. am i legal to open carry in there?

  2. #2
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    If it's lawful to open carry in your state,you canopen carry ontoprivate property. However, the owners (or representitives) of that property can ask you to leave or disarm -- if you don't comply, you can be arrested for trespassing. Check for signs... if none prohibit it, carry away, but you can probably count on being eyed or talked to by the security guard.

    DON'T let security touch, disarm or search you. If they ask you to leave, do so immediately.

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    thank you very much, that helps a lot.

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    I got snagged on my way out of my local mall and asked to leave by one security officer as three or four others watched from a "safe" distance.

  5. #5
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    The mall in Chandler has signs prohibiting firearms. Just CC it if you go there.
    That's the answer to just about question where there is a high probability that it's not allowed to have firearms. Except the major ones, such as polling places, Federal buildings, State buildings ,etc. Then leave it in the car.

  6. #6
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    I wonder how standard the practice is of CC'ing in restaurants that serve alcohol even though it's illegal?

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    It is for me, especially since I don't even drink. I don't even think about it but since it's illegal in VA now, suddenly I have to think about alcohol. I just CC anyway. I figure it's like going 5 mph over the speed limit or not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign. Yes, it's illegal but I'm going to do it anyway. In the case of the weapon, the benefits (to me and everyone around me) far outweigh the risks.

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    HardChrome wrote:
    It is for me, especially since I don't even drink. I don't even think about it but since it's illegal in VA now, suddenly I have to think about alcohol. I just CC anyway. I figure it's like going 5 mph over the speed limit or not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign. Yes, it's illegal but I'm going to do it anyway. In the case of the weapon, the benefits (to me and everyone around me) far outweigh the risks.
    There is a big difference..

    5pm over the limit.. Nobody cares
    Not coming to a complete stop... It cost less than a hundred bucks if a cop has his "panties in a bunch"
    Carrying concealed in a restaurant...

    ...If you aren't interested in the law, why even bother with the permit process to begin with?





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    There is a big difference..
    I don't believe there really is, other than the punishment.

    Just because something is law doesn't make it right. If I can safely go 40mph in a 30mph zone, what have I done wrong (not illegal, but wrong)? Carrying a gun in a post office is against the law, but what harm does it actually do? If I don't threaten anyone, I don't injure anyone, and I don't damage any property, what have I done wrong?

    The reason many of us get permits is because we would rather not break the law if we don't have to. That's a far cry from wanting to comply 100% with every unconstitutional law that's out there.

  10. #10
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    I can't imagine everyone comlpies with all laws 100% of the time. In many states, certain types of sex, even between consenting adults and spouses are considered sodomy and are thus illegal. Sure doesn't stop anyone.

    I don't condone outright disrespect for the law but some practicality is in order here I think.

  11. #11
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    *bump*

    I think this brings to point that even law-abiding gun owners such as ourselves aren't really doing the best for our own safety or the safety of others by following the law 100% of the time. Note that I am not advocating breaking any laws here but am simply pointing out as others have stated the incosistency of doing the right thing and following the law.

    Arizona prohibits open or concealed carry in places that serve alcohol, private property in which it is prohibited, government land, buildings, or sponsored events which prohibit it, K-12 schools, and beyond the security point at the airports. It is generally a misdemeanor for breaking this law. The irony of concealed carry is that how do they know you have it? So it is illegal but unless they have metal detectors or they search you as a condition for entering the property, nobody knows you have a gun. In all practicality, I don't see how leaving your gun in the car or with the owner does you or anyone else around you any good.

    What good does leaving your gun in the car do while drinking at a bar, if someone walks in and shoots it up? Are you going to be able to get to the car and get it in time? Maybe some of the victims at Virginia Tech left their guns in the car or at home that day. Following the law got them killed. Breaking it may have saved many lives. If someone had a gun on 9/11 on one of those planes, there may have been less lives lost. While alcohol and guns don't mix, if you cannot conduct yourself appropriately under the influence (carrying or not) then you shouldn't be drinking period and might have an alcohol problem or otherwise a generalattitude problem.

    One thing that makes the gun control laws silly is that if I open carry in a prohibited area, they will ask you to leave the gun in the car but then all I would have to do is go to the car, pretend to leave it in there but instead stick it in my pocket, and go back in and because they don't see it, they think I don't have it. So much for the logic of gun control against open carry. If every place which prohibited firearms guaranteed to have armed personnel on duty who were sworn to protect you while on the property and were held legally liable for your safety, then it wouldn't be that big of a deal. The problem is that the same places which prohibit firearms (schools, airplanes, bars, etc.) have no one there who can helpyou should some psycho come in with a gun and start shooting it up.



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    Cue-Ball wrote:
    There is a big difference..
    I don't believe there really is, other than the punishment.

    Just because something is law doesn't make it right. If I can safely go 40mph in a 30mph zone, what have I done wrong (not illegal, but wrong)? Carrying a gun in a post office is against the law, but what harm does it actually do? If I don't threaten anyone, I don't injure anyone, and I don't damage any property, what have I done wrong?

    The reason many of us get permits is because we would rather not break the law if we don't have to. That's a far cry from wanting to comply 100% with every unconstitutional law that's out there.
    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but when I looked up the law on this the only law that is on the books is that the owner of an establishment with a license to sell alcohol is required by law to prohibit weapons & is required to ask anyone carrying a weapon to leave the establishment, with the exception of him or herself & authorized employees who are allowed to carry. The only way you're in trouble according to the law is if you refuse to leave if asked - in which case you could be charged with trespassing.

    One of my CCW instructors was a lawyer & a part time Judge that specializes in gun laws, and he said there has not been a single prosecution against someone for having a weapon in a restaurant that also happens to serve alcohol. He said he personally would love to fight such a case for free if it were ever prosecuted, and offered to do so for our entire class.

    It is a bit of a muddy water issue however due to the fact that our Sheriff's office does incorrectly state on its website that it is not allowed. Carry or don't carry - either is done at your own risk (risk of death by attacker if you're unarmed, risk of prosecution if you stay armed). - some say it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

    Personally, I think the law should be changed to be more like our driving law. You can drive to and from a bar, so long as you don't drink & drive. Don't ever drink & carry or risk getting a CWI (Carrying while intoxicated)

    Just my humble opinion.

  13. #13
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    swift wrote:
    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but when I looked up the law on this the only law that is on the books is that the owner of an establishment with a license to sell alcohol is required by law to prohibit weapons & is required to ask anyone carrying a weapon to leave the establishment, with the exception of him or herself & authorized employees who are allowed to carry. The only way you're in trouble according to the law is if you refuse to leave if asked - in which case you could be charged with trespassing.

    One of my CCW instructors was a lawyer & a part time Judge that specializes in gun laws, and he said there has not been a single prosecution against someone for having a weapon in a restaurant that also happens to serve alcohol. He said he personally would love to fight such a case for free if it were ever prosecuted, and offered to do so for our entire class.

    It is a bit of a muddy water issue however due to the fact that our Sheriff's office does incorrectly state on its website that it is not allowed. Carry or don't carry - either is done at your own risk (risk of death by attacker if you're unarmed, risk of prosecution if you stay armed). - some say it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

    Personally, I think the law should be changed to be more like our driving law. You can drive to and from a bar, so long as you don't drink & drive. Don't ever drink & carry or risk getting a CWI (Carrying while intoxicated)

    Just my humble opinion.
    http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatD...mp;DocType=ARS

    It is unlawful...

    29. For any person other than a peace officer, the licensee or an employee of the licensee acting with the permission of the licensee to be in possession of a firearm while on the licensed premises of an on-sale retailer knowing such possession is prohibited. This paragraph shall not be construed to include a situation in which a person is on licensed premises for a limited time in order to seek emergency aid and such person does not buy, receive, consume or possess spirituous liquor. This paragraph shall not apply to hotel or motel guest room accommodations nor to the exhibition or display of a firearm in conjunction with a meeting, show, class or similar event. (emphasis added)

    Although I tend to agree with Cue-Ball as to the illegal but is it wrong argument; the law clearly states it's illegal. But only if you know it's illegal??? I guess in this case ignorance is bliss.

    Edit- Can't spell

  14. #14
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    Thanks Wiscaz.

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    protector84 wrote:
    *bump*

    I think this brings to point that even law-abiding gun owners such as ourselves aren't really doing the best for our own safety or the safety of others by following the law 100% of the time. Note that I am not advocating breaking any laws here but am simply pointing out as others have stated the incosistency of doing the right thing and following the law.

    Arizona prohibits open or concealed carry in places that serve alcohol, private property in which it is prohibited, government land, buildings, or sponsored events which prohibit it, K-12 schools, and beyond the security point at the airports. It is generally a misdemeanor for breaking this law. The irony of concealed carry is that how do they know you have it? So it is illegal but unless they have metal detectors or they search you as a condition for entering the property, nobody knows you have a gun. In all practicality, I don't see how leaving your gun in the car or with the owner does you or anyone else around you any good.

    What good does leaving your gun in the car do while drinking at a bar, if someone walks in and shoots it up? Are you going to be able to get to the car and get it in time? Maybe some of the victims at Virginia Tech left their guns in the car or at home that day. Following the law got them killed. Breaking it may have saved many lives. If someone had a gun on 9/11 on one of those planes, there may have been less lives lost. While alcohol and guns don't mix, if you cannot conduct yourself appropriately under the influence (carrying or not) then you shouldn't be drinking period and might have an alcohol problem or otherwise a generalattitude problem.

    One thing that makes the gun control laws silly is that if I open carry in a prohibited area, they will ask you to leave the gun in the car but then all I would have to do is go to the car, pretend to leave it in there but instead stick it in my pocket, and go back in and because they don't see it, they think I don't have it. So much for the logic of gun control against open carry. If every place which prohibited firearms guaranteed to have armed personnel on duty who were sworn to protect you while on the property and were held legally liable for your safety, then it wouldn't be that big of a deal. The problem is that the same places which prohibit firearms (schools, airplanes, bars, etc.) have no one there who can helpyou should some psycho come in with a gun and start shooting it up.


    You sound like me. LOL I carry anyplace unless their is a metal detector. Then i'll just stay away. Places that tell you no weapons allowed really mean concealed carry only. More then a few are in grave yards because they obeyed a stupid law. Beside if you carry a gun into a place you shouldn't and something happens that you need the gun i'm sure the no carry sign will mean nothing

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    personally, i still don't understand the AZ restaurant laws.

    soneone tried to explain to me that you can carry legally in a place thanksSELLS alcohol in closed sealed containers(ie Safeway, Walgreens) but you can't carry in a place that SERVES alcohol to drink on premises - any restaurant with a liquor license.

    this also applies even if the bar area is separate from the dining area and you don't drink.

    so Mickey D's is okay but Rubio's isn't. Go figure.

    at least that's the way i understand it. however, like others, better to have with than not have at all.



    papasmee

  17. #17
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    One of the strange things about that law is that it is illegal to bring a minor into a bar, but it is not illegal to bring a minor into a restaurant that also happens to have a bar area. Yet for those of us who carry guns, we are not even alowed in the restaurant area of a restaurant that happens to have a bar.

    I guess minors are trusted by our legislature more than adults who carry a gun.

  18. #18
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    protector84 wrote:

    What good does leaving your gun in the car do while drinking at a bar, if someone walks in and shoots it up? ..................While alcohol and guns don't mix, if you cannot conduct yourself appropriately under the influence (carrying or not) then you shouldn't be drinking period and might have an alcohol problem or otherwise a generalattitude problem.



    oddly enough, there are enough laws already in place (against public intoxcation, disorderly conduct, and many laws dealing with firearm misconduct, so that you would think that clear thinking gun owners would obey them while carrying.

    of course, the idiots that would not follow those laws would also not abide by the "bar" prohibition laws.

    so there you go.

    papasmee

  19. #19
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    Notso wrote:
    I wonder how standard the practice is of CC'ing in restaurants that serve alcohol even though it's illegal?
    My understanding is if it is posted you cannot OC or CCin that establishment. if you are caught CCing with or without a permit you will (1) lose the right to OC or CC (charged with CC) (2) Lose your CC permit.

  20. #20
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    Sad to say, bars in general are not healthy places to hang out at period. Constant fights and management who doesn't want to deal with it. Most bars that I've been to have hired security who have not had a day of training. Some even have felony record backgrounds.They don't care if someone gets killed as long as they die off of their property. Naturally, the bouncers at any club would not want someone like me to "handle" the problem because it would likely result in about 8 cop cars out front and their liquor license in jeapordy.

    Arizona law permits firearms on the licensed premisis of an on-sale retailer (bar or restaurant that serves liquor to be consumed on the premisis) only if for the purposes of reporting an emergency. The person can only remain during the duration of the emergency and cannot consume alcohol while on the premisis. So technically, if I'm sitting at the bar and the next thing I know someone has someone in a headlock and is about to slit their throat with a knife, I can legally go out to that car, get that gun, and then shoot and kill the attacker. Sure, I'd have to answer a ton of questions and probably deal with a judge but the bar on the other hand would havea "Closed" sign on the door soon thereafter. That is why these places just aren't healthy environments. They allow people to get dead drunk on the premisis and in violent altercations and if you dare to do anything to stop it, you get 86ed. Yet these places should not even have a liquor license to begin with because they have no control over what goes on on their own property. Kind of a catch-22 situation especially when it is your own friends, family, or significant other you are trying to protect.



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