• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Gun Safes

lockman

State Researcher
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Messages
1,193
Location
Elgin, Illinois, USA
imported post

The last time a house completely burned down around here was last week. I sent a guy out to open two safes that had fallen down into the debris in the basement (hot embers), The safes turned out to be empty but appeared the 1 hr UL fire rating was adequate.

The UL RSC rating was created primarily at the request of the gun safe manufactures so they would have a UL burglary rating to help sales. The RSC rating is basically resistant against an attack with a common hammer and screwdriver. This is the rock bottom of burglary ratings.

TRTL60x6, Tool and torch resistant on all sides and in a gun safe size will cost you $15,000 -25,000. The protection afforded by a UL rating diminishes over time through improved tools and techniques. A TL30 safe manufactured in 1974 will not provide near as much protection as a TL30 safe manufactured in 2006! But for insurance purposes once rated, always rated.
 

lockman

State Researcher
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Messages
1,193
Location
Elgin, Illinois, USA
imported post

I should add: The UL fire ratings and the Gun safe manufactures ratings are not directly comparable. a UL 1-hr class 350 safe is much better protection for documents that a 1-1/2 hr 1200 degree manufactures rating. Although; paper may be safe at 350 degrees many other things are not. So take mfg. fire ratings with a grain of salt.

Also, A non rated burg safe with 1/4"steel thickness and a decent lock mechanism is by far, better that a UL RSC rated safe at 1/2 that thickness. Do not confuse door thickness specifications with metal thickness on the door. Some mfg. say 1-1/2" thick steel door. That may actually be 1/8" steel slab; 12ga sheet metal and the rest fire fill material.
 

Kevin Jensen

State Researcher
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
2,313
Location
Santaquin, Utah, USA
imported post

One of my first jobs was at National Security Safe Co. in American fork, Utah. Our top of the line safes were made with 1/4 inch plate steel, and fire proofing material to boot. Then they sold out to Liberty Safe and guess what we started manufacturing? Garbage. The end result "looked" the same, but the fire rating and security left more to be desired. My brother used to work at Fort Knox Safe Co. in Orem, Utah. He says they still build a good safe.
 

Mainsail

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
1,533
Location
Silverdale, Washington, USA
imported post

Here's what I got. $465 delivered to the door.

No, it won’t withstand a near-strike with a thermonuclear warhead, but it’ll keep out the regular burglars.

Ratings

Fire Rating:
1-hour class 350

Burglary Rating:
1/4" steel and hardplate

Media Rating:
Not rated for media

Interior Dimensions
Interior Height:
56"

Interior Width:
15 1/4"

Interior Depth:
12 1/2"

Cubic Feet:
6.1 cu. ft.

Shelves: 1

Exterior Dimensions

Exterior Height:
59 1/8"

Exterior Width:
17 1/2"

Exterior Depth:
17 3/4"

Weight:
295 lbs.

MS-5917-Open-500.jpg
 

lockman

State Researcher
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Messages
1,193
Location
Elgin, Illinois, USA
imported post

Thos are expensive safes! you can find TL30 1" thick steel body safes for about that price. You may have to make your own interior, but for $8k and only get 3/8" thick steel plate security I would buy a tl15 jewelers vault and put my own plywood & carpet.
 

cloudcroft

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,908
Location
El Paso, TX (formerly Colorado Springs, CO)
imported post

Mine's a Liberty Presidential 25 which has my guns, silverware, spotting scope, camera, laptop, important documents, etc., in and the Sentry has my all my ammo (stored in .50 and .30 caliber milsurp ammo cans) andcertain tools thieves could use to TRY to get into either safe. Plus, the Sentry is loaded even heavier with lead ingots I use for bullet/sinker casting.

Additionally, I have renter's insurance, and, I plan to get an alarm installed with their monitoring service.

But what I've got now is good enough for me.

-- John D.
 

cloudcroft

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,908
Location
El Paso, TX (formerly Colorado Springs, CO)
imported post

Thanks, but it doesn't matter: You can have anEMPTY safe -- which still screams "Steal Me" -- and people will always think there is something valuable in it and try to get in, so I'm not at all concerned about saying what's in them. And since I live in an apartment, people I don't know (assorted questionable-backgrounds, low-skilled maintenance staff, etc.) have already seen them so it's no secret.I am still waiting for them to break in after 2+ years now.

But I just wanted to share how I use TWO safes, which are bolted together, BTW, for more difficulty moving (and to lock up my "anti-safe" power tools, which is something many homeowners forget; thieves will thank you for forgetting), and to show that "gun safes" can serve to secure OTHER things, too, especially when one goes away for the weekend, etc..

Besides, I am usually home, am always armed home or not, and people around here-- especially the maintenance staff -- know to "stay away from that crazy guy." They apparently will enter other people's apartments whenever they feel like it, but they do not enter mine.

I wonder why...I thought that putting Smiley Faces on the business end of my guns made them look more warm-and-fuzzy.

-- John D.
 

DreQo

State Researcher
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
2,350
Location
Minnesota
imported post

lockman wrote:
You left out where the safe is and the combination. You can put it in your next post.:lol:

lol Don't need the combination or location, he's in an appt, so it would take no more than 1 minute to locate the safe, and now being aware of what time of safe it is, probably about 3 minutes to gain access (since we're now aware of what tools we'll need).

I think lockman's point is that the reason you lock things up is to keep honest people honest. The more secure it is, the more dishonest one must be to attempt to steal it. With all the info you've posted here, it might just be enough for a random internet surfer to decide "hell, now that every's been spelled out for me, I might as well go for it!" lol.

With that being said, I do appreciate the advice you've shared as far as locking up tools that could be used against you and the like. Good info.
 

Kevin Jensen

State Researcher
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
2,313
Location
Santaquin, Utah, USA
imported post

cloudcroft wrote:
Thanks, but it doesn't matter: You can have anEMPTY safe -- which still screams "Steal Me" -- and people will always think there is something valuable in it and try to get in, so I'm not at all concerned about saying what's in them. And since I live in an apartment, people I don't know (assorted questionable-backgrounds, low-skilled maintenance staff, etc.) have already seen them so it's no secret.I am still waiting for them to break in after 2+ years now.

But I just wanted to share how I use TWO safes, which are bolted together, BTW, for more difficulty moving (and to lock up my "anti-safe" power tools, which is something many homeowners forget; thieves will thank you for forgetting), and to show that "gun safes" can serve to secure OTHER things, too, especially when one goes away for the weekend, etc..

Besides, I am usually home, am always armed home or not, and people around here-- especially the maintenance staff -- know to "stay away from that crazy guy." They apparently will enter other people's apartments whenever they feel like it, but they do not enter mine.

I wonder why...I thought that putting Smiley Faces on the business end of my guns made them look more warm-and-fuzzy.

-- John D.
Being a former maintenance supervisor of an apartment community, I am not sure if I should take offense to this or not. I, of course, only entered someones apartment with the intentions of theft on my mind. :p
 

cloudcroft

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,908
Location
El Paso, TX (formerly Colorado Springs, CO)
imported post

Perhaps you're joking, but I believe you're also cluless re: what kind of "quality employees" are the normhere in this part of Mexico. Perhaps you had quality maintenance staff there in America, if so, I am not talking about them. I'm talking about what we have down here. I don't think it's possible tofind less qualified people to do ANYTHING than we have here...except for their equally ignorant/shady (or worse) counterparts found in urban ghettos and elsewhere.

And I am in one of the best neighborhood areas of town and one of the best and more expensive apartment complexes, not some run-down neighborhood fleabag flophouse.

Where I'm at, some of the maintenance stafflook to be illegals and speak little English, some no English at all so you really can't even talk to them about the problem they're supposed to be fixing...just watch as they screw something up and look around your apartment."Repairs" are poorly done -- they usually make it worse/break something -- as if they don't have a clue how to fix somethingor even jnow how touse simple tools. It's the rule rather than the exception thatcrappy work is done here, and when they're not working, they're going through the dumpsters looking for stuff.In one place I lived a few years ago, they used my phone to call LD and of course, I got the bill.

I do not feel comfortable letting these kinds of people in my apartment to do ANYTHING but I have to because they are the maintenance staff, but Ihave told the management thatunless it's an emergency, and in order to avoid a tragic incident, no one has any businessbeing in my apartment. Period.

The law here is that if ANY maintenance staff enterssomeone's apartment, they have to leave a card saying they were in your place and why. That is not done here or at other complexes I am aware of in this town...so unless you take steps to monitor apartment access yourself, you'd never know when someone has come in.

And the only "safe-moving" company here (what a joke it is) apparently only hires people with rap sheets, usually bald-headed tatooed gangsters...this is well known...and there's a lot of "staff" turnover, like weekly.I've seen some of them smoke dope on their breaks.And these guys know where you live and what safes you have; they don't need to know what's in them, just that you have them is plenty....means you're rich and must have nice stuff in them.

Now, do these people sound like the people you supervised?

Are you now up to speed on what's up here with these guys, what you can expect no matter where you live in this town?

If you were in charge of good honest maintenance men who REALLY knew how to fix things right an do so the FIRST time, I'd love to live there...but I'm not in Utah, I'm here, and here expecting competent, trustworthy workers isjust dreaming.

Point is, down here, "quality work" and "good employees" way too often areoxymorons, but that's true all along this low-classBorder area.

If things are not like this where you live, count your blessings.

-- John D.
 
Top