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Thread: Park in Vancouver, WA with a sign saying No Firearms

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    The Park is along the columbia river down 164th ave. The sign says No weapons or firearms, along with lots of other No's. It gave some RCW codes at the bottom but I didn't have a camera or pen and paper at the time.

    Can I OC in this park or not? Thanks.


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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    If it's a federal park, then no. If it's a state or local park, then yes.
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    It is a local park. Is there someone in local government that I can inform regarding their incorrect sign so they can get it updated?





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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    The city's Attorney General would probably be the best bet.
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    You know... it's a bee-YU-ti-ful day out today.... just right for taking a trip to the park. Yeah..just me, a book, my gun, my BORSE and my DVR.

    Yeah... I like that idea......

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    ^^classic!

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    nathan wrote:
    The Park is along the columbia river down 164th ave. The sign says No weapons or firearms, along with lots of other No's. It gave some RCW codes at the bottom but I didn't have a camera or pen and paper at the time.

    Can I OC in this park or not? Thanks.
    Were they RCW's or VMC's?

    I found the VMC covering firearms in parks. Sounds like a slam-dunk over-ride for RCW .

    I may seriously go for a read in the park tomorrow. No ID... just my BORSE.

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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    Phssthpok, to fix that link, remove the end-bracket " ] " after the equals sign in the first part of the code and put it after the URL (i.e. after the W in RCW).
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    I just got back from OC'ing at Lacamas Lake part. It is appearantly governed by Clark County rules. There was a sign saying no firearms but I ignored it (ORD #1976-05-43). The Vancouver/Clark County website with the 'rules' is http://www.ci.vancouver.wa.us/parks-...ails/rules.htm

    The webpage is copyrighted 2007.





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    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
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    I checked the Clark County Code and found the following:

    9.04.190 Firearms.
    No person shall, at any time, bring into or upon the properties of the county, nor have in their possession, nor discharge a revolver, pistol, shotgun, rifle, bow and arrow, crossbow, slingshot, spring or gas propelled b-b and pellet guns, spears or javelins, or any other weapon, except in designated target range areas. (Ord. 1976-05-43 (part), 1976)




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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    Man, if it wasn't so far away, I'd say that park is begging for an OC picnic.

    At the very least, it needs to be brought to the WA State AG's attention, along with all the other "illegal" local firearms ordinances.
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    Update on the Vancouver Parks No-Firearms policy. I emailed Vancouver Parks & Recreation informing them of the Preemption Statute in RCW, and was replied to by Brian Potter, whose contact info isbelow:

    Brian Potter
    Parks Resource Program Manager
    Vancouver-Clark Parks & Recreation Department
    PO Box 1995
    610 Esther Street

    Vancouver, WA 98660

    Visit us at: http://www.vanclarkparks-rec.org
    "creating community through people, parks and programs"

    He invited me to call him and discuss (which I may still do), but he was willing to discuss the issue via email to some extent. He apparently was aware of RCW 9.41.290, and stated that the park rules actually only prohibit discharge (which is allowed under RCW). He wouldn't advise me as to what to do if someone asks me to leave the park because they see my weapon (CC'd or OC'd), but stated thatnobody will know anyway if its concealed. I directed him to OCDO, and stated that it could be an issue for legal OC.

    He was very nice, informed, and did not seem biased at all. I would suggest calling him if you want further clarification.

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    dt wrote:
    Update on the Vancouver Parks No-Firearms policy. I emailed Vancouver Parks & Recreation informing them of the Preemption Statute in RCW, and was replied to by Brian Potter, whose contact info isbelow:

    Brian Potter
    Parks Resource Program Manager
    Vancouver-Clark Parks & Recreation Department
    PO Box 1995
    610 Esther Street

    Vancouver, WA 98660
    Phone: (360) 619-1123
    Fax: (360) 696-8009
    Email: brian.potter@ci.vancouver.wa.us
    Visit us at: http://www.vanclarkparks-rec.org
    "creating community through people, parks and programs"

    He invited me to call him and discuss (which I may still do), but he was willing to discuss the issue via email to some extent. He apparently was aware of RCW 9.41.290, and stated that the park rules actually only prohibit discharge (which is allowed under RCW). He wouldn't advise me as to what to do if someone asks me to leave the park because they see my weapon (CC'd or OC'd), but stated thatnobody will know anyway if its concealed. I directed him to OCDO, and stated that it could be an issue for legal OC.

    He was very nice, informed, and did not seem biased at all. I would suggest calling him if you want further clarification.
    ********.


    From VancouverMunicipal Code Section 15.04.060 Firearms and fireworks.

    Firearms, fireworks, bows, arrows, and sling shots are prohibited in any park. It is unlawful to shoot, fire, or explode any firearms, fireworks, firecracker, torpedo or explosive of any kind or to carry any firearms or to shoot or fire any air gun, bows, and arrows, BB gun or use any slingshot in any park;
    Looks like he needs some more edjumication.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    dt wrote:
    Update on the Vancouver Parks No-Firearms policy. I emailed Vancouver Parks & Recreation informing them of the Preemption Statute in RCW, and was replied to by Brian Potter, whose contact info isbelow:

    Brian Potter
    Parks Resource Program Manager
    Vancouver-Clark Parks & Recreation Department
    PO Box 1995
    610 Esther Street

    Vancouver, WA 98660
    Phone: (360) 619-1123
    Fax: (360) 696-8009
    Email: brian.potter@ci.vancouver.wa.us
    Visit us at: http://www.vanclarkparks-rec.org
    "creating community through people, parks and programs"

    He invited me to call him and discuss (which I may still do), but he was willing to discuss the issue via email to some extent. He apparently was aware of RCW 9.41.290, and stated that the park rules actually only prohibit discharge (which is allowed under RCW). He wouldn't advise me as to what to do if someone asks me to leave the park because they see my weapon (CC'd or OC'd), but stated thatnobody will know anyway if its concealed. I directed him to OCDO, and stated that it could be an issue for legal OC.

    He was very nice, informed, and did not seem biased at all. I would suggest calling him if you want further clarification.
    If I were asked, or threatened with arrest, I would be more than happy to point out the statute that deals with "Coercion". The State Law is clear that it is illegal to prevent anyone from going about a legal activity. If it is done by a civilian they can be charged with coercion. If done by an official or officer of the law it is abuse under color of authority. If the local Prosecutor won't take the complaint, go to the FBI. It is their job to investigate and take the case to a USAG.

    They can ignore the State Law all they want. It will no doubt take someone being charged with a crime for their actions to stop it.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    What is the RCW for Coercion and 'abuse under color of authority'?

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    I sent an email advising Mr. Potter that it would be in the Parks Department's best interest to train their employees that the ordinance is preempted, the signs are moot, and open carry is legal.

    We'll see how he responds.

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    Thanks, Lonnie. I don't think he was aware of the legality of open carry, although I did advise him to research it further.

    Since phssthpok is correct, and the signs do reference Vancouver Municipal Code that is obviously preempted, I think the City Attorneymight bethe next person to contact.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    nathan wrote:
    What is the RCW for Coercion and 'abuse under color of authority'?




    RCW 9A.36.070
    Coercion.

    [/b](1) A person is guilty of coercion if by use of a threat he compels or induces a person to engage in conduct which the latter has a legal right to abstain from, or to abstain from conduct which he has a legal right to engage in.

    (2) "Threat" as used in this section means:

    (a) To communicate, directly or indirectly, the intent immediately to use force against any person who is present at the time; or

    (b) Threats as defined in *RCW 9A.04.110(25) (a), (b), or (c).

    (3) Coercion is a gross misdemeanor.



    Also of interest is this from the FBI website:

    http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/color.htm


    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Ok, here's the deal, folks.

    Parks Department knows that A) the signs are unenforceable and B) the ordinance is invalid. I advised electrical tape until the next round of signs can be printed off without that rule.

    Any Parks code changes require the Vancouver City Council to approve.

    If you're a resident of Vancouver city, then your best bet is to approach your councilman and ask that this ordinance be rewritten to delete the references to no carry of firearms due to 9.41.290.

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    Will do.


    Update: Sent the following letter to the City Ombudsman http://www.cityofvancouver.us/feedba...ubmenuid=17850

    I will also be snail-mailing it to the City Attorney General and The Mayor/Council Office.



    "I would like to point out that City Parks code is out of line with State law on the issue of firearms.

    http://www.ci.vancouver.wa.us/parks-...ails/rules.htm

    http://www.cityofvancouver.us/Munici...p;VMC=060.html

    "*Firearms*, fireworks, bows, arrows, and sling shots are prohibited in any park. It is unlawful to shoot, fire, or explode any firearms, fireworks, firecracker, torpedo or explosive of any kind *or to carry any firearms*"

    This is clearly more restrictive than State law and is therefore preempted and void (and has been for many years) under RCW 9.41:

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.290

    "The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality."

    This needs to be addressed with the City council and corrected. Unlawful signage should be removed or modified.

    I appreciate your attention to this matter.

    {Name}

    {address}

    Vancouver WA 98661
    Currently with the DoD in Iraq."
    Be prepared. Be very prepared.

    http://swwsurplus.com/ *** 2519 E Fourth Plain Blvd Vancouver WA 98661 *** 360.314.6687
    http://www.facebook.com/SouthWestWashingtonSurplus *** https://twitter.com/SWWSurplus

  21. #21
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    One more note:

    http://www.ci.vancouver.wa.us/parks-...ails/rules.htm

    They changed the park rules.

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    It's good that the Parks Department has at least changed their website. I wonder if the signs will be changed also?

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