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Thread: HERE IT IS - 1st Norfolk Incident

  1. #1
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    This vid is from LEO2's dashcam. LEO1's dashcam only caught him coming outside his car with gun in hand, then pointing it at me with no audio.

    REFRESHER - On 6/29/07 approx 5:22pm, I was picking up a friend in downtown Norfolk. At the time, I didn't have A/C and it was 110 outside, so I stood outside my car in order to remain cool. What happened next I could expect, however what the NPD did, I could not.

    They had me at gunpoint, they placed handcuffs on me, illegally searched me, illegally detained, and when it was all said and done, no apology, just if you come out here, you will get this kind of "attention".

    For those of you unfamiliar with police procedure, it is unlawful for a law enforcement officer to detain/search you without probable cause - Terry vs Ohio.

    Now I had typed ALL the dialogue, but the window timed out and now I'm just going to post the vid. Please ask any questions about the dialogue.

    Oh, sorry about the watermark appearing over and over. I used a free trial program to convert the DVD format to WMV.

    I'm going to take this to a lawyer, but I would like to hear for you guys, what would you do next.



    Thanks so much for the support!!!



    Dan

    http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fusea...deoid=18078410

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    Danbus - Glad to see you kept so calm and collected. Next we will all be glad to see the NPD in court. But after all, you just wanted the attention right... Best of luck!!!



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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Well, I heard one threaten you at least once (if you so much as let your shirt cover a part of that gun I'll arrest you for concealed weapon) and I heard "he's stupid".

    Over and above them stopping you for no reason.

    IANAL. I hope you find one who wants to take this on.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    unreal

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    Regular Member Virginiaplanter's Avatar
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    It sounds like the one officer admits you were doing nothing illegal only creating a nusiance by drawing attention to yourself by being armed in public, so why did he have a gun pointed at your head? That constitutes an assault to me. I would sue them without a doubt.

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    Wow, just wow! Talk about unprofessional officers of the "law". I suppose having a car outside of the bank is going to draw attention too, since many bank robbers use cars to get away from the scene of the crime.

    I don't recall if you have a CHP or not, so I'm not sure why the guy would assume if you had the gun covered that some how that would also be an issue.

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    Thinking about it and watching it again made me realise. Just 1 twitch of the finger and our friend Dan gets shot in the back andfor what.

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    I would getchargesfiled withthe Magistrate as soon as possible......

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    Dan, get me the DVD and I can get it converted without that watermark. Also, think you could upload it to googlevideo??



    That video makes me very angry, way to stand your ground dan.

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    JeffersonDavis wrote:
    I would getchargesfiled withthe Magistrate as soon as possible......

    +1. Do EVERYTHING you can. Point out the fact that the police officer is unduly putting your life in danger by FOLLOWING THE LAW. Point out the mental anguish as part of being hassled and your new found fear of so-called law enforcmenet officers.

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    Sorry to hear what happened again.

    IANAL but on the myspace video page you may want to fix the part that says:

    "For those of you unfamilliar with police procedure, it is unlawful for a law enforcement officer to detain/search you without probable cause - Terry vs Ohio."

    because Terry v. Ohio actually says "that 'a reasonably prudent man would have been warranted in believing [Terry] was armed and thus presented a threat to the officer's safety while he was investigating his suspicious behavior.' The Court found that the searches undertaken were limited in scope and designed to protect the officer's safety incident to the investigation."
    http://www.oyez.org/cases/1960-1969/1967/1967_67/


    Also check out Minnesota v. Dickerson (US Supreme Court) regarding "plain feel"



    happy carrying,


    jason

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    Sorry you had to be held at gun point.

    Were you in front of a bank?

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Sorry you had to be held at gun point.

    Were you in front of a bank?
    Should it matter?

    (Not being a smart-*ss.... in some states we can legally carry in a bank. Standing in front of - or inside of - a bank is no more grounds for police harrassment than standing in my own front yard.)

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    mzbk2l wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    Sorry you had to be held at gun point.

    Were you in front of a bank?
    Should it matter?

    (Not being a smart-*ss.... in some states we can legally carry in a bank. Standing in front of - or inside of - a bank is no more grounds for police harrassment than standing in my own front yard.)
    Yes....

    This happens at banks

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t42RN...ted&search=

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    mzbk2l wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    Sorry you had to be held at gun point.

    Were you in front of a bank?
    Should it matter?

    (Not being a smart-*ss.... in some states we can legally carry in a bank. Standing in front of - or inside of - a bank is no more grounds for police harrassment than standing in my own front yard.)
    Yes....
    +1

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
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    "Had to be held at gunpoint"??? I think the point is he SHOULDN'T have had a gun pointed at him at all! I have one advantage in concluding this because Dan played the cassette tape of the 911 call for us as we converted his VHS tape to disc. We don't have the equipment to convert the cassette, but the 911 dispatcher was calm and matter of fact, asking the caller if he was doing anything with the gun. The caller said "No" , that he was standing there with it "in his waist". (it was holstered, not Mexican style) The dispatcher simply relayed this "man with a gun" call to the police, and they clearly over reacted.

    One of the cops in Dan's video admitted he knew OC was legal, so they had no reason to suspect he was doing anything that required drawn guns.

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    You did GREAT Dan!!! I know you were NOT lawsuit shopping that day, nor two days later- butconsidering the circumstances, I'd surely file one. Dutch Uncle is right on the money, as usual

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    On this board... I see an ongoing theme that I find disturbing.

    Many members questionor contest the LEO who responds to suspicious events. It is often said that since the person is not "breaking any laws" that the LEO should observe from a distance and then go away. The LEO need not contact the person that was reported as being suspicious.

    Often times a citizen will call in a complaint or suspicious event. The LEO is dispatched based on what the citizen says and then how the call taker types in the event details.

    The LEO has no idea why the person is there or what they have done prior to his arrival. This means that a citizen can say "I think he pulled his gun out of his holster and pointed it at some people." Now it is not just a suspicious event but a crime and a public safety issue.

    Having been told this... the LEO must act accordingly. Even if the person knows he did nothing wrong.. the LEO has no idea whothe person isand may have been given false or misleading information.

    There are times when the LEO MUST make contact with the person to be sure everything is OK. This contact can be seconds or minutes depending on how smooth things happen.If that person is armed... the LEO has to do things to make sure they and the public aresafe. This will depend on the nature of the complaint.

    This is just for your information. No need to flame me for providing you with knowledge.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    On this board... I see an ongoing theme that I find disturbing.

    Many members questionor contest the LEO who responds to suspicious events. It is often said that since the person is not "breaking any laws" that the LEO should observe from a distance and then go away. The LEO need not contact the person that was reported as being suspicious.

    Often times a citizen will call in a complaint or suspicious event. The LEO is dispatched based on what the citizen says and then how the call taker types in the event details.

    The LEO has no idea why the person is there or what they have done prior to his arrival. This means that a citizen can say "I think he pulled his gun out of his holster and pointed it at some people." Now it is not just a suspicious event but a crime and a public safety issue.

    Having been told this... the LEO must act accordingly. Even if the person knows he did nothing wrong.. the LEO has no idea whothe person isand may have been given false or misleading information.

    There are times when the LEO MUST make contact with the person to be sure everything is OK. This contact can be seconds or minutes depending on how smooth things happen.If that person is armed... the LEO has to do things to make sure they and the public aresafe. This will depend on the nature of the complaint.

    This is just for your information. No need to flame me for providing you with knowledge.
    You realize that this is not a new story, right? There is a months-old thread by Dabus around here somewhere from when it first happened.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Bubba Ron's Avatar
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    I find holding a law-abiding person at gun point disturbing. The 911 operators and dispatchersshould be trained to ask a few questions to determine IF this is a person breaking any laws - and the LEO's should respond appropriately.

  21. #21
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    Excellent job Danbus !!! My favorite line is when he says "You're wearing a hat that says BlackManWith a Gun !!!" and your response is perfect with "So I'm exercising my1st and2nd amendment rights?"

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    Bubba Ron wrote:
    I find holding a law-abiding person at gun point disturbing. The 911 operators and dispatchersshould be trained to ask a few questions to determine IF this is a person breaking any laws - and the LEO's should respond appropriately.
    You have the prior knowledge that danbus is a good person who likes to OC.

    The police that responded never met him before, and have no idea who he is, why he is there,or why he is armed.

    Call takers do ask these things.


  23. #23
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    SNIP...

    The police that responded never met him before, and have no idea who he is, why he is there,or why he is armed.


    So if I am clearly doing something that is not only legal but protected by the US and VA Constitution you say I need to be questioned by someone like you? While we are all being questioned do we all need a gun pointed at us and a LEO like yourself going through our pockets? Its none of yours or anyone else'sbusiness why the hell anyone is armed or standing 50 yards in front of a building that has a bank on the second floor. Maybe some ofthose LEO's need to be questioned as to why they should be armed.......or employed....

  24. #24
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    In reponsce to Leos vid of a bank shootout--I might add that shootouts/mass shootings can take place ANYWHERE,and a bank should be no exception. Hell, even "gun-free" zones have had massacres (virginia tech,columbine,etc.) That being said the officer was out of context drawing a weapon on Dan, I can understand if dan was acting in a threaning manner, but he was not when the officers arrived. Maybe talk to him REASONABLY and ask him for consent to search (wich he would have denied.) Maybe have his hand on his sidearm or have it drawn, but definitely not pointed at him. That type of overdramatic theatrics could have caused a man (well within his rights) his life...

  25. #25
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    JeffersonDavis wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    SNIP...

    The police that responded never met him before, and have no idea who he is, why he is there,or why he is armed.


    So if I am clearly doing something that is not only legal but protected by the US and VA Constitution you say I need to be questioned by someone like you? While we are being questioned do we all need a gun pointed at us and a LEO like yourself going through our pockets? Its none of yours or anyone else'sbusiness why the hell anyone is armed or standing 50 yards in front of a building that has a bank on the second floor. Maybe some ofthose LEO's need to be questioned as to why they should be armed.......or employed....
    How about it your legally armed with a rifle in the corner of the parking lot to a police station?

    I can imagine in that situation I should just leave you alone, right?

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