Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Guns Banned At Gun Show

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Hampton, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    428

    Post imported post

    At the Hampton gun show, held on public property, there is a big sign at the entrance: "All guns must be checked and tied".

    ********. This is public property. This rule is unenforceable.

    We insist on carrying at Bay Days, Harborfest, in parks, on the street (even in front of a bank), but no one complains about the gun show.

    I admit it, I am also guilty. I didn't want the hassle of challenging the operators of the gun show, so I cc'ed at the gun show.

    What will we do when the liberal press gets ahold of this inconsistency and we are all branded hypocrites?

    Comments, please.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Hampton, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    428

    Post imported post

    Please allow me to clarify: guns are not banned at the gun show. The carry of loaded guns is banned at the gun show. It is legal on public property to carry a loaded firearm See the thread on Anyone Going ToHampton Gun Show to see an example supporting my assertion that itis legal to carry at the gun show.

  3. #3
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    glocknroll wrote:
    Please allow me to clarify: guns are not banned at the gun show. The carry of loaded guns is banned at the gun show. It is legal on public property to carry a loaded firearm
    So are you saying that the gun show promotor/employees are acting illegally?



  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Hampton, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    428

    Post imported post

    HankT wrote:
    glocknroll wrote:
    Please allow me to clarify: guns are not banned at the gun show. The carry of loaded guns is banned at the gun show. It is legal on public property to carry a loaded firearm
    So are you saying that the gun show promotor/employees are acting illegally?

    I don't know if it is illegal to try to bluff someone into not exercising his rights, but the Convention Center is public property and we have the right to carry there.

    The gun shows used to be held at the Hampton Coliseum, right across the street, and they used to pull the same thing there. The Coliseum has a recorded message playing over the PA when you are entering the Coliseum, stating the rules for entering/attending a function. It states, among other things, "no illegal weapons". Most people fall for the bluff, and don't carry there. They have employees with metal detectors at the entrances, and not once has the wand gone off when I have entered carrying a gun. It's public property, and they can't stop you from carrying there.

    Another member stated in the other thread about the gun show that his brother was stopped for carrying at the gun show at the Coliseum, the police were called, and the police told the promoter that carry was legal there. He wasoffered free admission if he would disarm before entering.
    Edit-
    Correction: It was not JeffersonDavis' brother, but his friend who had this experience. I have asked him to relate the story himself.

  5. #5
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    glocknroll wrote:
    They have employees with metal detectors at the entrances, and not once has the wand gone off when I have entered carrying a gun. It's public property, and they can't stop you from carrying there.
    So, are the wands just fake then, in your opinion? Is it just a sham security performance?




    glocknroll wrote:
    Another member stated in the other thread about the gun show that his brother was stopped for carrying at the gun show at the Coliseum, the police were called, and the police told the promoter that carry was legal there. He wasoffered free admission if he would disarm before entering.
    Is the gun show doing anything illegal is still the question...

    It would be very interesting if the gun show guys were all lying and stuff just to discourage as many people (unsavvy) as possible from carrying.

    But, wait. If it is totally legal to carry there--why don't you OC?

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    105

    Post imported post

    Theguy in chargeof Southeastern Gun and Knife a few years back in the coliseum asked my friend to disarm or leave ......My buddy was not pleased that a security guard was telling him to disarm in a municipal building and it was getting pretty heated. The police were called and they said it was legal.......The event coordinator begged him to disarm or leave. He just didn't want a scene and I don't blame him. My friend after a few tense arguments agreed to disarm and enter for free. I haven't been but once since it moved from the coliseum. I used to work for one of the local shops (years ago) so I would get a vender's pass and come in the back way. when I go through the front I never adhere to the order of the sign, I carry concealed and go right in. When I was working the shows I would carry open and nobody would ever say a word. I guess the vender's pass is the accepted badge.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Hampton, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    428

    Post imported post

    HankT wrote:
    glocknroll wrote:
    They have employees with metal detectors at the entrances, and not once has the wand gone off when I have entered carrying a gun. It's public property, and they can't stop you from carrying there.
    So, are the wands just fake then, in your opinion? Is it just a sham security performance?




    glocknroll wrote:
    Another member stated in the other thread about the gun show that his brother was stopped for carrying at the gun show at the Coliseum, the police were called, and the police told the promoter that carry was legal there. He wasoffered free admission if he would disarm before entering.
    Is the gun show doing anything illegal is still the question...

    It would be very interesting if the gun show guys were all lying and stuff just to discourage as many people (unsavvy) as possible from carrying.

    But, wait. If it is totally legal to carry there--why don't you OC?
    Yes, I do believe that it is a sham security performance. I stopped to be wanded once, and then waited for my son to be wanded also. I was told "we don't check kids". If it was real security, they would check everyone. Otherwise, anyone could just strap whatever they wanted to carry inside on a kid.

    I can't answer the question of legality yes or no, because I don't know the answer. It would definitely be illegal for the police to enforce the rule, but I don't know if the posting of the sign is illegal in itself.

    I think I will OC next time, just to prove the point. I haven't done so before in order to avoid a confrontation at the gun show. I didn't want any aggravation, and I didn't want the local press to pick up on the story. I guess it just wasn't important enough in the past to push the subject.

    If I had to guess, I would say that some vendors would refuse to work the show if loaded firearms were allowed to be carried by attendees. Many of the local gun shops don't allow the carry of firearms on their premises except by law enforcement.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    519

    Post imported post

    Its an insurance requirement. See this statement from C & E Shows, the promoter who runs numerous gun shows in VA, including the big one at Chantilly.

    DUE TO PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUES AND INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS, THERE WILL BE NO LOADED GUNS, OR MAGAZINES, ALLOWED ON THE SHOW FLOOR. THIS APPLIES TO VENDORS AS WELL AS THE GENERAL PUBLIC. SORRY, BUT WITHOUT MEETING THE INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS THE SHOW CANNOT GO ON, AND AS MUCH AS WE MIGHT AGREE ( or disagree ) WITH YOUR OBJECTIONS, WE MUCH PREFER TO CONTINUE THE SHOW IN SPITE OF THIS SMALL INCONVENIENCE. THIS MATTER IS NOT OUR POLICY OR DECISION, BUT WE CANNOT AND WILL NOT CHANGE IT OR MAKE EXCEPTIONS.

    Bottom line, the show won't go on unless they get insurance. Insurance company dictates no loaded guns or magazines. No insurance = no gun show.

    I don't like it either, but that's how it is.

  9. #9
    Regular Member sccrref's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Virginia Beach, VA, , USA
    Posts
    741

    Post imported post

    markand wrote:
    Its an insurance requirement. See this statement from C & E Shows, the promoter who runs numerous gun shows in VA, including the big one at Chantilly.

    DUE TO PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUES AND INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS, THERE WILL BE NO LOADED GUNS, OR MAGAZINES, ALLOWED ON THE SHOW FLOOR. THIS APPLIES TO VENDORS AS WELL AS THE GENERAL PUBLIC. SORRY, BUT WITHOUT MEETING THE INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS THE SHOW CANNOT GO ON, AND AS MUCH AS WE MIGHT AGREE ( or disagree ) WITH YOUR OBJECTIONS, WE MUCH PREFER TO CONTINUE THE SHOW IN SPITE OF THIS SMALL INCONVENIENCE. THIS MATTER IS NOT OUR POLICY OR DECISION, BUT WE CANNOT AND WILL NOT CHANGE IT OR MAKE EXCEPTIONS.

    Bottom line, the show won't go on unless they get insurance. Insurance company dictates no loaded guns or magazines. No insurance = no gun show.

    I don't like it either, but that's how it is.
    I would suggest that they get a new insurance carrier. I am sure that there is some money hungry insurance company out there willing to take the premiums.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Lake Zurich, IL, ,
    Posts
    17

    Post imported post

    What if it were proven to be lawful to the insurance company? Think you could convince them then?

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Hampton, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    428

    Post imported post

    I hadn't considered the insurance angle. That makes sense. Not that I agree with it mind you, but it is easier to understand why they would try to make such a rule.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Hampton, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    428

    Post imported post

    LaneAtomic wrote:
    What if it were proven to be lawful to the insurance company? Think you could convince them then?
    I doubt seriously an insurance company could be convinced that their client would be absolved of liability just because it is legal.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Hilliard, OH, , USA
    Posts
    91

    Post imported post

    I read somewhere that there is only one insurance company that will insure gun shows in the U.S.

  14. #14
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    sccrref wrote:
    markand wrote:
    Its an insurance requirement. See this statement from C & E Shows, the promoter who runs numerous gun shows in VA, including the big one at Chantilly.

    DUE TO PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUES AND INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS, THERE WILL BE NO LOADED GUNS, OR MAGAZINES, ALLOWED ON THE SHOW FLOOR. THIS APPLIES TO VENDORS AS WELL AS THE GENERAL PUBLIC. SORRY, BUT WITHOUT MEETING THE INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS THE SHOW CANNOT GO ON, AND AS MUCH AS WE MIGHT AGREE ( or disagree ) WITH YOUR OBJECTIONS, WE MUCH PREFER TO CONTINUE THE SHOW IN SPITE OF THIS SMALL INCONVENIENCE. THIS MATTER IS NOT OUR POLICY OR DECISION, BUT WE CANNOT AND WILL NOT CHANGE IT OR MAKE EXCEPTIONS.

    Bottom line, the show won't go on unless they get insurance. Insurance company dictates no loaded guns or magazines. No insurance = no gun show.

    I don't like it either, but that's how it is.
    I would suggest that they get a new insurance carrier. I am sure that there is some money hungry insurance company out there willing to take the premiums.
    What makes you so sure about that? You're saying that all C & E would have to do is dial up a different insurance company and their problems would be solved?

    I don't see how that could be. C & E would have done it already!

    I think yours is a BIG assumption--"that there is some money hungry insurance company out there willing to take the premiums."


    Unless ... you mean that you're sure that there is some money hungry insurance company out there willing to take higher premiums from C & E so that they could allow loaded guns on the sales floor.

    If you mean that, then I'd have to agree with you.

    Of course, why would C & E want to payhigher premiums for insurance onits shows?

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    519

    Post imported post

    I have no doubt that insurance companies are behind quite a bit of anti-gun policies. I have worked for numerous employers who have adopted anti-gun policies at the behest of their insurance companies.

    A couple of years ago, a gun store in Fairfax, VA was driven out of business when their *landlord's* insurance company found out that there was a gun store on the premesis. Gun store had gobs of insurance (millions, as I recall). The landlord was a restaurant who rented the gun store a small building across the parking lot from the restaurant. Restaurant's insurance company told the restaurant they wouldn't insure the restaurant if they continued to rent space to the gun store.

    Was alternate insurance available? Yep, at about 5 times the premium, if memory serves. Was an alternate location available? Yep, also at several times the price they were paying.

    Gun stores don't have great profit margins. Its been said that operating a gun store is a great way to make a small fortune....out of a large one. Doesn't take much to drive one under. Result of jacking up insurance rates or rent: one less gun store in business.

    Gun shows are under the same kind of economic pressure. They're probably not operating on a gigantic profit margin and can't afford or absorb a huge increase in insurance costs. Doesn't sound like show operators are particularly happy about banning loaded guns at shows, but there isn't much they can do about it.

    On the other hand, despite the loaded gun prohibition, if somebody were to try to rob a gun show, or shoot one up, there would instantly be hundreds of gun owners frantically loading their weapons. And I don't think it would take very long to do so. Bandits, terrorists or other bad guys aren't going to get very far.


  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Chambersburg, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    246

    Post imported post

    I attended a gun show in my local area this past weekend. I knew of the supposed 'blanket policy' and decided beforehand that I would conceal while there. I did not see any signs posted at the event I attended, and also saw no OC weapons while there. The guys at the door didn't give the impression of being highly educated or intelligent, so I decided to not even bring up the subject with them.

    I am committed to further educating the public about the legality of open carry. I feel the best way (for me) to do this, is in a controlled manner. Rather than bouncing all over town to see if I can get hassled in six different places, I 'selectively' visit spots where I think I might be approached, being prepared to interact and follow-through with a brochure, letters, phone calls, etc. I hope that by not testing too many 'high risk' situations at once, I can work through them in a professional manner, regardless of the ultimate outcome. Because of what I've already read, gun shows are pretty far down on my list for two big reasons: I rarely frequent them, so it's almost a non-issue to me personally; and, the chances of actually making a change seem to be slim.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    30

    Post imported post

    gnbrotz wrote:
    I attended a gun show in my local area this past weekend. I knew of the supposed 'blanket policy' and decided beforehand that I would conceal while there. I did not see any signs posted at the event I attended, and also saw no OC weapons while there. The guys at the door didn't give the impression of being highly educated or intelligent, so I decided to not even bring up the subject with them.

    I am committed to further educating the public about the legality of open carry. I feel the best way (for me) to do this, is in a controlled manner. Rather than bouncing all over town to see if I can get hassled in six different places, I 'selectively' visit spots where I think I might be approached, being prepared to interact and follow-through with a brochure, letters, phone calls, etc. I hope that by not testing too many 'high risk' situations at once, I can work through them in a professional manner, regardless of the ultimate outcome. Because of what I've already read, gun shows are pretty far down on my list for two big reasons: I rarely frequent them, so it's almost a non-issue to me personally; and, the chances of actually making a change seem to be slim.



    Ya know it is interesting, I commented on this a while back and the only answers I remember seeing were people who attended the shows did not trust others with their weapons. I have not seen that answer here, we are now using the insurance excuse. Might be a true reason they do not allow guns at gun shows BUT the members of this board and most who read these posts supposedly support the 2d Amendment and our right to carry either open or concealed. Just an interesting observation on my part that the people who supposedly support the 2d Amendment do not trust others to act responsibly with guns. Now the insurance thing is another issue, I believe if we all decided not to attend gun shows where guns carried by law abiding citizens are banned then there would be a change, I would imagine pretty quickly. I do not patronize gun stores that tell me I have to disarm either.








  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Cincy area, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    891

    Post imported post

    I'd venture to guess that boycotting gun shows where carry is banned would just lead to...no more gun shows. I've had long talks with two different promoters of large events, and they have shown me paperwork from the same insurance company--not a coincidence, it's the only one which will write coverage--which insists that there be no loaded firearms present. (With legalese mumbo jumbo about 'excepting law enforcement agents in the official course of their duties, etc' in the fine print.)

    Can't sayI like this one bit, and won't say if I follow these rulesmyself.



  19. #19
    State Researcher dng's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    , , USA
    Posts
    1,290

    Post imported post

    The guns show up here in Ohio have the same rules. I don't like the rules at all, but I guess you have to go with it if you want to go to the show.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Gloucester Point, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    899

    Post imported post

    I'm not saying that what the gun shows are doing is write, nor that I agree with it but I do question the validity of the following statement:

    the Convention Center is public property and we have the right to carry there.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Hampton, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    428

    Post imported post

    bayboy42 wrote:
    I'm not saying that what the gun shows are doing is write, nor that I agree with it but I do question the validity of the following statement:

    the Convention Center is public property and we have the right to carry there.
    Why do you question it? It was built with the taxpayers money, so it belongs to the taxpayers. Just like the Coliseum.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •