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Thread: OC'ing in Annville PA., Lebanon County

  1. #1
    Regular Member Springfield45's Avatar
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    My first post here guys ... hope I'm not too annoying


    12:51 am. Tonight, after many months of OC'ing to the local sunoco (and everywhere else) for midnight ice cream walks, with my wife (she OC's as well). I had my first enocounter with an LEO because of my visible weapon. He passed us once in his patrol car, then circled the block, this time exiting his vehicle, asking "do you have a permit for that?" (in a rather professional tone) To wich, I replied "no sir, i do not need one" To that statement, he replied " I know, It's just not often you see a couple walking down the street with a pistol".... After the initial confrontation, the LEO and i stood there and small talked for almost 20 minutes. During this conversation another point came up, as he "warned me" to "watch out" for the PA state police as they might "give me more trouble and possibly frisk me" for carrying a weapon like that. To which, I countered, " that if they stop me for no reason, like he had just done, I would persue legal options for a "Terry stop". To which he admitted, even though HE HAD JUST DONE IT that he knew it was illegal ..... . I think he might have just been bored ..... LOL
    Fortunately, He was one of the most professional people I have ever dealt with. .. especially for a young LEO...

    For the record, My OC pistol is my Glock G20 in 10mm, My wife's being a Springfield Armory XD45 5" barrel ... both in Serpa hip holsters


    ~J.D.

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    Springfield45 wrote:
    My first post here guys ... hope I'm not too annoying


    12:51 am. Tonight, after many months of OC'ing to the local sunoco (and everywhere else) for midnight ice cream walks, with my wife (she OC's as well). I had my first enocounter with an LEO because of my visible weapon. He passed us once in his patrol car, then circled the block, this time exiting his vehicle, asking "do you have a permit for that?" (in a rather professional tone) To wich, I replied "no sir, i do not need one" To that statement, he replied " I know, It's just not often you see a couple walking down the street with a pistol".... After the initial confrontation, the LEO and i stood there and small talked for almost 20 minutes. During this conversation another point came up, as he "warned me" to "watch out" for the PA state police as they might "give me more trouble and possibly frisk me" for carrying a weapon like that. To which, I countered, " that if they stop me for no reason, like he had just done, I would persue legal options for a "Terry stop". To which he admitted, even though HE HAD JUST DONE IT that he knew it was illegal ..... . I think he might have just been bored ..... LOL
    Fortunately, He was one of the most professional people I have ever dealt with. .. especially for a young LEO...

    For the record, My OC pistol is my Glock G20 in 10mm, My wife's being a Springfield Armory XD45 5" barrel ... both in Serpa hip holsters


    ~J.D.
    Seems like you handled yourself well. Perhaps the "do you have a permit for that?" was his way of striking up a conversation with you to try to find out whether or not you were a threat...

  3. #3
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    Welcome!

    Always goodto see another PA OC'er


    As for the stop, your encounter wasn't a terry stop. The LEO can stop and ask you anything he wants, any time he wants. Just like any person could...You do not have to answer. You don't even have to stop... It's not a terry stop until they frisk or detain you.




  4. #4
    Regular Member Springfield45's Avatar
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    Yes, I agree, the "Do you have a permit for that?" was actually the beginning of a very friendly conversation ... I was suprised, I was expecting trouble.
    :celebrate

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    Regular Member Springfield45's Avatar
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    Thank you for the clarification, Patriot, I'm pretty new to OC'ing and still gathering as many poointers/tips as I can. Sometimes conducting yourself in a professional manner, just isn't enough. Thanks again !


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    Hello Springfield45,

    Thanks for your OC report... and so close to home, too!

    I live in Palmyra and up to this point I have only carried concealed (with a LTCF of course!) but your report has given me a bit of encouragement to give OC a try. Thanks!

    jagkdx

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    Regular Member Springfield45's Avatar
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    Hello Jagkdx,

    I've OC'd in palmyra as well, in Sheetz, Wal-mart, and the Dairy Queen, all with no trouble, got some hairy eyeballs @ wal-mart, but never had any trouble. Give it a
    try !! Maybe We'll have to arrange an OC lunch sometime !


    Happy Carrying,
    John


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    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    Info only:

    Things that could be considered a "stop" during a police encounter: blocking your path, shining the car spot light directly on you and or activating his overhead lights, verbally saying stop, or physically grabing you or taking your property.

    Consentual encounters and voluntary statementsdo not invoke 4th Amend. protections and Terry Stop rules.

    I strongly urge those on the cutting edge of carry rights (oc) tohave and useaudio recorders and friendly witnesses (if possible) during police encounters.Your very freedom could depend on proving your side of the story!



    See:http://www.flexyourrights.org/about_fyr#?q=about.html for more





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    cato wrote:
    I strongly urge those on the cutting edge of carry rights (oc) tohave and useaudio recorders and friendly witnesses (if possible) during police encounters.Your very freedom could depend on proving your side of the story!
    Can't do that in PA!

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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    Can't do that in PA!
    Are you sure of that? I thought that only PRIVATE conversations could not be recorded. If you are stopped by police, you are out in PUBLIC, and therefore there is no expectation of privacy.

    I could be wrong though. Anyone have the code on this?

  11. #11
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    PA is an "all party consent" state.
    IOW, al parties must consent to being recorded whether phone, or in person.
    HOWEVER
    The exceptions include conversations to which there is "no expectation of privacy"

    So an LEO confronting you in a public place is not going to have any expectation of privacy.

    Just recently there was a rogue cop POS that charged a young man with felony wiretapping after said young man (a passenger in a vehicle) video taped a traffic stop (with audio).
    The charges, of course, were dropped.

    If you OC you SHOULD carry a recorder. I do, religiously.


    ETA: this is the recorder I use... awesome: http://www.amazon.com/Olympus-VN-4100-PC-256MB-Digital-Recorder/dp/B000OVPB9K


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    Hmm... now to find an audio recorder that can be integrated into a handgun grip...

    How do you go about getting an accurate recording, though? It seems like a recorder in a pocket would create a garbled recording.


  13. #13
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    You have to experiment. If it's in your pocket you don't want to be moving around as that creates the noise. I find that a dress shirt pocket wrks great. The recorder is up where the sound is and the light shirt fabric does not make nearly as much noice as pants pockets.




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    Springfield45, you said it was a young LEO. You didn't happen to notice whether the cruiser he pulled up in said Cleona rather than Annville on it, did you? Better yet, did the rear windshield have an American flag all over it, or no? I ask because they cover eachother all the time, and one of our cops in Cleona is pretty young. Henning is his name, and given the time of day you gave, he quite likely would have been on duty. He's my cousin's cousin, hangs out at the station (Cleona Fire) with us quite often, and is a very, very cool guy (not to mention a cool cop).

    Don't snort at him like a pig, though, I tried that last night and he wasn't too pleased with it

  15. #15
    Regular Member Springfield45's Avatar
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    Lancer,



    hahaha ... snort @ him like a pig... Naw, This policeman was an Annville Twp.
    Patrolman, It was the White unmarked Caprice that Annville Twp. has, his badge also Stated Anville Twp. Patrolman...


    ~~~ john


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