More ignorant (but friendly) cops

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Yesterday, I had a shindig to go to, so I wore some nice dress pants and a tie. I wear an untucked T-shirt most of the time, so no problem concealing. But now I had run into a problem. Dress clothes just don't look good with your shirt hanging out. It's going to take weeks for my Milt Sparks tuckable holster to get in, so my only other option was OPEN CARRY. (Unless I wanted to look like a slob).

On my way, I figured I'd just stop in to the local PD and ask about Louisiana's policy on open carry.

Cop #1: (Blank stare) "Uh, I don't really know".

Me: "Could you find out for me? I don't want to unknowingly break any law."

Cop #1: "Hold on, I'll find out" (Gets on the phone. Cop #2 arrives)

Cop #2: "Uh, I don't know either. I'll check with my supervisor." (Get's on the phone).

5 minutes and 15 "Uh huh's" later.............

Cop #2: "He's busy. Give me your phone number and I'll have him call you."

Well, I just didn't carry the rest of the day. (I feel almost naked without my pistol on me.) It's been about 24 hours and I still haven't heard anything. Even though they were really cool about it and were pretty friendly, I still have no clue as to the local laws pertaining to open carry. I firmly believe OUR POLICE SHOULD PROBABLY KNOW ABOUT THESE THINGS CALLED LAWS. I wonder if I asked about other laws, could they give me a definitive answer?

Me: "Hey, officer. Do you think it would be O.K. for me to hold up the local Quickie-Mart?"

Cop #1: "Uh, I don't really know. Give me your phone number and I'll have my supervisor call you."

Protect and serve.....yeah right. I'm not angry with them, I just feel ignored.With service like that, if these cops were waiters, they'd be getting just a token tip. Like a dollar, or maybe some cool looking pocket lint.

Every interaction with the public when they're not "on call" is an opportunity for the police to shed some of the prick steroetypes many people hold about them. While these officers were friendly and didn't hassle me, I still feel like I was just getting swept under the rug. All I wanted was a definate yes or no answer. I guess I'll keep waiting for that phone call. Maybe that supervisor was really, really busy.

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http://www.google.com/search?q=MO+L...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

SB 217 referenced in earlier posts in this forum (Missouri) are also available.

I have not studied the subject but it appears that OC is legal. IANAL. I have not seen anything from the MO AG on this subject either, so who knows?

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OC is not prohibited by the state of MO but it can be prohibited at the county or city level. You just have to know the law of the city you are visiting.

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Superlite27 wrote:

On my way, I figured I'd just stop in to the local PD and ask about Louisiana's policy on open carry.

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Did you mean to post this in the Louisiana forum?

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UPDATE:

After not hearing anything from the Louisiana police department, I decided to drop in yesterday and make an appointment with the Louisiana Poice Chief. His secretary told me he was in his office and I could go on in.

I entered his office and explained the situation, and told him I was still a little foggy on the specific city ordinance concerning open carry.

Here's what I was told:

"Well, if you want to open carry, there's not much we can do about it. But I would personally prefer that you didn't. Several times I have been out of uniform and been carrying openly and people have called the police on me, and I'm the police chief. Getting "man with a gun" calls are stressful and I would just like to avoid that situation, so I would prefer that you just concealed."

Here's what I'm going to do: Since my CCW was issued through the county, I'm going to go to the Sherriff and ask him. If he says "no problem" then I should be good to go.

I'm just not one of those guys that try to push things just to see where the line is. It was a pain in the assdoing paperworktosecure my right to carry at all. I don't want to endanger it by trying to find out what will happen when I open carry.

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Just remember, the police are there to protect the citizens and uphold the laws. They are not thesource for interpretation of the laws. It might be wise to refer legal questions to a lawyer.

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I agree with dngreer completely.

Also,when a "person with a gun" call comes in the police have no right and really should have no authority further than asking if they have committed a crime, if there is any suspicious activity, etc. If not, then it should fall on deaf ears. They don't call in a "person driving a car" call to police just because I'm behind the wheel and could in fact be drunk. Without a crime or a suspicious act/behavior there is no reason for the call.

One last thing. A small town like Louisiana should not have any problem introducing the entire town police staff to the lawfully open carrying citizen so they know from then on that he is not an issue and the "concerned" citizen(s) making the call can be ignored.

dngreer wrote:

Just remember, the police are there to protect the citizens and uphold the laws. They are not thesource for interpretation of the laws. It might be wise to refer legal questions to a lawyer.

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Amazing. Your local LEO's couldn't do what I just did in five minutes of research?
OC is NOT legal in Louisiana Missouri.

http://www.louisiana-mo.org/pdfs/code_of_ordinances.pdf

More specifically, here is what makes it illegal:

Carries a firearm or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use except as permitted by State law or in designated hunting districts and in such manner as provided for by Chapter 405 of this City Code.

Use the internet. It is your friend and you will save lots of time if used correctly.
All I did was Google "Louisiana Missouri Ordinance" and had my answer in a matter of two minutes.

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drur wrote:

Amazing. Your local LEO's couldn't do what I just did in five minutes of research?
OC is NOT legal in Louisiana Missouri.

http://www.louisiana-mo.org/pdfs/code_of_ordinances.pdf

More specifically, here is what makes it illegal:

Carries a firearm or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use except as permitted by State law or in designated hunting districts and in such manner as provided for by Chapter 405 of this City Code.

Use the internet. It is your friend and you will save lots of time if used correctly.
All I did was Google "Louisiana Missouri Ordinance" and had my answer in a matter of two minutes.

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What does State Law have to say?.......looks as if OC is legal in Louisiana Mo if the State allows it.....IMHO

Chapter 405 deals with zoning.....including HUNTING LANDS.....not with legally armed citizens carrying for self defense

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We do not have full firearms preemption in Missouri. The local governments can still regulate open carry and the discharge of firearms.

So yes, they can outlaw open carry. Is it right? Hell, no and we will be working with the legislature next year to correct this problem.

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Uh, yea. I don't see anywhere in the city code that says open carry is unlawful. The statute you reference could prohibit CC as well.

Correct me if I am wrong here?

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kingfish wrote:

Uh, yea. I don't see anywhere in the city code that says open carry is unlawful. The statute you reference could prohibit CC as well.

Correct me if I am wrong here?

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I can assure you it is illegal to open carry according to their city ordinance. The key term you are looking for is " Carries a firearm or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use except as permitted by State law". State law only allows for the carrying of concealed weapons.

I'll explain it all one more time, then I am going to allow someone else to throw in their two cents. Shawn (another poster on the Missouri blog) can explain anything I am not getting across.

Missouri has partial firearms preemption. All regulation of firearms with the exception of open carry and discharge of firearms is left at the state level. What this means is the only thing that local municipalities can regulate are these two issues.

Example; I live in Cape Girardeau Missouri. Open carry is illegal, yet eight miles away in Jackson Missouri, I can open carry with no problem. The permission to open carry comes from silence. If the local ordinance does not address the issue, you are good to carry.

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But open carry is permited by state law. You cannot make a law allowing something, thus if it is not unlawful, it is lawful.

I don't get it.


If they wanted to make OC unlawful, why don't they say..."OC is wrong and we don't like it....Mkay? And we will send you to federal ound me in the a** prison if you do it.""

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kingfish wrote:

But open carry is permited by state law. You cannot make a law allowing something, thus if it is not unlawful, it is lawful.

I don't get it.


If they wanted to make OC unlawful, why don't they say..."OC is wrong and we don't like it....Mkay? And we will send you to federal ound me in the a** prison if you do it.""

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Once again WE DO NOT HAVE FULL FIREARMS PREEMPTION IN THE STATE OF MISSOURI.

IF we had full firearms preemption at the state level, this would not be an issue. The state leaves it up to local municipalities to determine if they want to allow OC and the discharge of weapons within their jurisdiction.

I am not saying it is right and I would love to change the law (we have been working on that). Last legislative session we had a bill introduced by my State Senator to correct this situation. It made it out of committee and was combined with a similar bill but it never made it to the Senate floor. We are going to attempt to make that happen in this upcoming session.

You can OC whereever the hell you want, but YOU will deal with the consequences. The guy asked a question and I answered it.

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drur wrote:

Once again WE DO NOT HAVE FULL FIREARMS PREEMPTION IN THE STATE OF MISSOURI.

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I am not saying they don't. I am saying that there is NOTHING in the statue that you posted that would make the open carry of a handgun unlawful. I am also not saying that it was not the intent of the local government to make OC a crime, however, the state does not prohibit OC, thus you are permited becouse a law does not tell you what you can do, only what you can't.

You can OC whereever the hell you want, but YOU will deal with the consequences. The guy asked a question and I answered it.

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Nope. I never said the local law will not arrest you, you will not be charged and convicted, I just said it is flat wrong.

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Not only did drur answer, he provided a full explanation as well. (Not to mention adding a subtle tinge of sarcasm directed at my apparent lack of expertise at thisthingamabob called the "innernet")

Thanks, drur. I probably won't be parading around with my armory strapped to any area in full view to avoid the probable hassle.

Having nothing to do with dress shirts, I wonder what will happen if I wear a snug T-shirt covering my weapon? (In other words, an obvious "print")

Since it is covered, wouldn't it be considered "concealed"?

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Superlite27 wrote:

Not only did drur answer, he provided a full explanation as well. (Not to mention adding a subtle tinge of sarcasm directed at my apparent lack of expertise at thisthingamabob called the "innernet")

Thanks, drur. I probably won't be parading around with my armory strapped to any area in full view to avoid the probable hassle.

Having nothing to do with dress shirts, I wonder what will happen if I wear a snug T-shirt covering my weapon? (In other words, an obvious "print")

Since it is covered, wouldn't it be considered "concealed"?

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I carry my weapon while it is "printing" nearly every day. I have done this in front of LEO's with nothing mentioned.

Kinda my way of showing how stupid the requirement to conceal is. All we are doing is satisfying a bunch of sheeple.

PS I do love to open carry and do so whenever legal/possible. Frightening the sheeple is a past time of mine.