Is IWB OC'ing Legal in VA?

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Just applied for my CHP and in the mean time I have been thinking about open carry. Went into Loudon Guns (Leesburg) and asked about IWB holsters for open carry. They quickly told me how IWB OC was NOT legal and asking for trouble! Anyways, I thought I would get your thoughts on this as it sems like a convienent way to OC. Thanks for any advice you can give!

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when I transition from CC to OC (i.e. when entering a restaurant that sells alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption), I tuck my shirt in behind my IWB-holstered Taurus 905. There's not much else I can do to unconceal my sidearm any more than that.

Unless I were to put the holster between the belt and my pants, but that's just silly.

Wouldn't it be openly carrying? That's all you can typically see of a holstered sidearm anyways, whether the holster is OWB or IWB: the grip, and the end of the frame. If you can tell it's a sidearm, and the manner in which it is carried doesn't obscure the fact that it's a working gun (i.e. the mini-revolver belt-buckle -- http://www.naaminis.com/custcry.html ), then it's being openly carried, IMO.

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I am of the opinion that IWB is OC but I usually carry OWB to leave no doubt. Once in a while I do IWB OC though and had no problems. Let me put it this way, in 12 years of shall issue alone and with 135000 CHP holders out there, the number of arrests that I know of due to IWB open carry as concealed carry is zero. There could be a case or a hundred out there but I figure if it were happening a VCDL member or 2 would have been snagged for it in a restaurant or something.

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As for the Mini Belt Buckle I worry that because it might be construed as disguising the true nature of the gun it might be CC.

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Thanks for the help..I don't think you could mistake a G20 IWB as anything but a firearm, but then again you never know...any good IWB holsters for a G20??

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longwatch wrote:

As for the Mini Belt Buckle I worry that because it might be construed as disguising the true nature of the gun it might be CC.

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Not to california police! (SEE: Video of kid with a ridiculously toy looking fake gun belt buckle in a bank hold at gun point.)

I saw some people at norfolk city council meeting and whatnot IWB opencarrying, as I understand its called the "virginia tuck" for a reason.

Bottom line: If you can see it, its not concealed. "Common observation"

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Some years back (before '95 and shall issue laws), a friend related a CC arrest case to me. Seems an officer arrested a man (yes, in Virginia) carrying a concealed weapon without a permit because the officer observed the lower half of a holster protruding below the man's shirt. In court, the judge asked the officer if he saw the weapon and the officer replied that he did not. The judge through the case out on those merits.

As for carrying, the determination is hidden from common observation or in reverse, visible to common observation. This would make me believe that an IWB holster is fine it the weapon contained within is visible and identifiable as such by common observation.

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Im all for that...I honestly have no one else to OC with, all my friends are anti-gun(sob-sob) so it would be nice! Shoot me an email...

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jao82 wrote:

Went into Loudon Guns (Leesburg) and asked about IWB holsters for open carry. They quickly told me how IWB OC was NOT legal and asking for trouble!

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Huh?

I never heard of such a thing. When we moved here, I had the opportunity to ask a lawyer whether IWB OC was OK (I did CC IWB before we moved here), and he said that it was. So I have been doing IWB OC for about three years. Just this year, I have taken to OWB OC, because I use a leather holster; when I wear it all day outside, I can easily get it all sweaty: not good for holster or gun, but I only do OWB when it is hot and humid. When it is not so bad, I go back to IWB. Jeez, the same amount of gun shows, whether IWB or OWB. Where did this silly idea come from?

Do you have any names from Loudoun Guns? Tommy, Jenny, Andre, Nelson? I go there at least once a week, and I usually do IWB OC, when I go there, and no one has said anything to me about it.I want to see what they have to say.

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I've only been there twice..It was actually 2 guys..A guy that was wearing glasses and a taller dark haired guy..Sorry Im so vauge I just don't know them that well...

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jao82 wrote:

Im all for that...I honestly have no one else to OC with, all my friends are anti-gun(sob-sob) so it would be nice! Shoot me an email...

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Sounds like you need to OC around you friends more often. Who knows, maybe you will convert a few!

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As long as someone can tell what it is you are fine. I do it all the time when I enter restaurants and have had police stand right behind me. No issues what so ever.

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jao82 wrote:

I've only been there twice..It was actually 2 guys..A guy that was wearing glasses and a taller dark haired guy.

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The guy with glasses was short, swarthy, week-old beard? Sounds like Andre. The tall guy might be Tommy, if he was slim/fit. A few other guys are taller and pudgy.

Ijust want to see where these guys are coming from. As I said, I carry in there a lot, and it is normally IWB OC (the rest of the time is when I am coming from work, in a place where I am unconstitutionally proscribed fromcarry). In fact, I took one of Tommy's classes, just for grins, so he REALLY knows that I carry IWB OC.

Anyhoo, I never heard that IWB was an OC issue, at all.

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Nemo...He had a shaved head and glasses...He talked to me about AR-15s. He was a younger guy...

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jao82 wrote:

Nemo...He had a shaved head and glasses...He talked to me about AR-15s. He was a younger guy...

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OK. I stopped in Loudoun Guns on the way home, last Friday, as usual. I talked with Andre. He did not remember you, but he was DEFINITE that IWB was NOT the legal way to carry. I reminded him that IWB was how I normally did OC, ever since we moved here, ~ four years ago; he said to change my ways. I tried common sense with him and said that the amount of gun that was "open" was the same, whether IWB or OWB (the only that that IWB conceals is the holster, and somehow I don't think that the holster is the item of concern....); he agreed. I said that it made no sense; he said that it did not have to make sense, that it was the law. Well, actually, I can understand THAT.

He did agree that the actual wording of the law is not specific abouty this and that various LEO's have taken it upon themselves to make this call. I did not think to ask, while I was there, but he or someone he knows must have been burned this way.

It seems obvious to me that someone with a holster, whether IWB or OWB is a good guy, not a crook, but the uniformed thugs they hire these days either care only about making any kind of bust or don't know the law and have been getting away with it... Nah, that would never happen, would it? :shock:

I would bet that, even if you were rousted by a uniformed thug,you could beat this with sheer common sense (with half of your brain tied behind your back!) in court, but that also takes time and money. If you get arrested for this, though, you may as well spend the time and money.

I don't believe that the cops around here are really that stupid.... No; I take that back. Anyhoo, it is a simple fix to go OWB, and now I do, though still not quite believing that it is necessary.

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He did agree that the actual wording of the law is not specific abouty this and that various LEO's have taken it upon themselves to make this call. I did not think to ask, while I was there, but he or someone he knows must have been burned this way.

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I'm pretty sure the reason he couldn't find it in the law, or quote the law, is because it's bullpuckey.

I don't believe that the cops around here are really that stupid.... No; I take that back. Anyhoo, it is a simple fix to go OWB, and now I do, though still not quite believing that it is necessary.

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Yeah, some are that stupid. Not many, but some.

It's NOT against the law. If the weapon can be identified as a gun, it's not concealed.


§ 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.
A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. A second violation of this section or a conviction under this section subsequent to any conviction under any substantially similar ordinance of any county, city, or town shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony, and a third or subsequent such violation shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony. For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.

The section goes on a bit further, but even in its' definitions does not further define "concealed"