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Thread: Signs at "Posted Properties"

  1. #1
    Regular Member Fallguy's Avatar
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    Am I reading T.C.A. 39-17-1359 right in that a property owner that doesn't want you to carry on their property must post the exact sign as in the statute?

    As I'm sure any of you that have had your permit from the beginning remember, it used to have the announce statement in it. To my knowledge what announce meant was never legally defined. But best I can tell by reading it now it no longer has that in it. In fact the only exception it makes to sign in the statute is if a local, state or federal entity had a similar sign in place on July 1, 2000 that they may continue to use that sign.

    I take that to mean the old international no symbol with a gun wouldn't not be a "legal" sign at a non-governmentbusiness, correct?

    Although...I guess you would still have to leave if they tell you to, right?

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    >>I take that to mean the old international no symbol with a gun wouldn't not be a "legal" sign at a non-governmentbusiness, correct?<<

    if that's the letter of the law, then that's how I'd take it.

    >>Although...I guess you would still have to leave if they tell you to, right?<<

    I'm not sure about TN, but I'm sure you'd face some sort of criminal tresspass if you refused to leave ...definately not something I'd want on my record.

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    The Tennessee attorney general released an opionion on this earlier this year...

    http://www.attorneygeneral.state.tn....07/OP/OP43.pdf

    Q: May a property owner use the international circle and slash symbol in lieu of a sign that uses the language prescribed by Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1359(a)?

    A: No. The international circle and slash symbol may not be used in lieu of a sign that uses the language prescribed by Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1359(a).

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    I actually keep a copy of that in a little pouch on my belt among other items.

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    Regular Member Fallguy's Avatar
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    THANKS kingfish!! Just what I was looking for.

    I will be keeping a copy of it too.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Fallguy, you realize that even though the law's on your side w/this one, if the people ask you to leave, you need to go ahead and leave, right? Just because the private business had the wrong sign up doesn't mean they can't kick you off of their property.

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    Regular Member Fallguy's Avatar
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    FightingGlock19 wrote:
    Fallguy, you realize that even though the law's on your side w/this one, if the people ask you to leave, you need to go ahead and leave, right? Just because the private business had the wrong sign up doesn't mean they can't kick you off of their property.

    Yes I do understand, but they shouldn't act surprised that you are in there. Also if you are able to tell them the type of sign they have is incorrect they will either have to remove it or get and post the proper sign.

    I figure it is easier to post a small, non-obtrusive "slash gun" sign than it is to post the proper sign in T.C.A. 39-17-1359 so they may decided it isn't worth the effort.

    Of course they may and probably would, ask you to leave every time enter with out the proper sign. I guess it could be come a test of will.


    I spoke with the Attorney General's office this afternoon and upon their advice have contacted my state rep with a list of questions to get the AG's opinion on. Among these are being asked to leave and returning in the future if the proper sign is still not posted. My question mainly dealt with places with out sign period though. But as we already know an in-proper sign is legally the same as no sign.

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    >>My question mainly dealt with places with out sign period though. But as we already know an in-proper sign is legally the same as no sign.<<

    true, true. If it were me, I might give the manager a copy of the law, but I'd definately let my wallet speak for me ;-)

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    Regular Member Fallguy's Avatar
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    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Very informative. Great questions.

    I'm comtemplating a move to the Memphis area around New Year's. Having learned FL's and MI's laws, I'm now starting to study TN.

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    C-ya wrote:
    Very informative. Great questions.

    I'm comtemplating a move to the Memphis area around New Year's. Having learned FL's and MI's laws, I'm now starting to study TN.
    C-ya,

    What county and township are in (assuming Mi), if you don't mind me asking?

    And, what poblems have you had OCing, if any?

  12. #12
    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Fallguy wrote: Too bad it is wrong.

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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    C-ya,

    What county and township are in (assuming Mi), if you don't mind me asking?

    And, what poblems have you had OCing, if any?
    I live in Berrien County (SW MI) in Lake Township. Not really in it, but you know...

    I haven't OC'd anywhere but my own property - yet. I have (had?) some plans to try it in the local towns near me (Bridgman, Stevensville, St. Joe; Benton Harbor may not a good first one, tho!). I was trying to meet with member nextlevelcell in GR, but I got busy this past weekend. I drill there, and I ended up heading in the other direction while accompanying some friends.

    I haven't seen a single person OC'ing around here. I was going to stop in and ask the local constabulatory what they would do since it was legal, and go from there.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Fallguy's Avatar
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    kingfish wrote:
    Fallguy wrote: Too bad it is wrong.
    My State Rep sent me an e-mail and said he had been contacted by and expert in TN handgun laws and that he disagreed with answer to question 3 about public parks. My Rep said he has asked the AG for a further review.

    What others do you disagree with and why?

    Of course as most of us know an AG opinion is not the law of the land...or even the interpretation of the law that could send you to jail, a judge or jury does that. But...it is his office that would bring charges against you in the first place.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

  15. #15
    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Fallguy wrote:
    kingfish wrote:
    Fallguy wrote: Too bad it is wrong.
    My State Rep sent me an e-mail and said he had been contacted by and expert in TN handgun laws and that he disagreed with answer to question 3 about public parks. My Rep said he has asked the AG for a further review.

    What others do you disagree with and why?

    Of course as most of us know an AG opinion is not the law of the land...or even the interpretation of the law that could send you to jail, a judge or jury does that. But...it is his office that would bring charges against you in the first place.
    No, that is it, but it is enough. I do hot your rep get's it changed and has the balls to maybe take it even further by demanding all LEO be trained in the actual law, not just something they heard.

    But, good job making ANY progress at all. I am in @@@@'ed up Alabama at the moment where the local yahoo (sherrif) gets to make his own ruled and change them at will.

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