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Thread: 20 yo friend pulled over... gun taken.

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    A friend of mine, who is 20, was just pulled over and had his pistol on the front seat. The albemarle county police officer took the gun and told him they would be calling him to tell him what he is going to be charged with. I sent him the applicable code and he is calling his lawyer as we speak. Anyone have any advice?

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    leprechaun117 wrote:
    A friend of mine, who is 20, was just pulled over and had his pistol on the front seat. The albemarle county police officer took the gun and told him they would be calling him to tell him what he is going to be charged with. I sent him the applicable code and he is calling his lawyer as we speak. Anyone have any advice?
    They took the gun and said.. we will charge you later when we figure it out?

    Oh My!!!

    I guess he needed time to crack the book open.

    Sorry your friend is gun less at the moment.... The officer should not have kept the gun if he could not find a valid charge in a reasonable amount of time. He should have called his supervisor or another officer for their opinion.

    Contrary to popular belief.. I do NOT always side with the men in blue..


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    Why was he pulled over speeding, tail light?

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    smccomas wrote:
    Why was he pulled over speeding, tail light?
    Expired tags. This happened at 7ish in the morning, and he has yet to hear from the officer. I guess he can't find the law he thought existed...

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    LEO 229 wrote
    Contrary to popular belief.. I do NOT always side with the men in blue..
    I'm speechless :shock:

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    Just got filled in on some details...

    officer A initiates traffic stop (young guy)
    officer B arrives as backup (older guy)
    A is at driver's window, B at passenger B pillar
    A asks for the gun to run the serial number (!!!) at which point friend picks up gun (in holster)
    B draws gun and demands friend to drop the weapon (!!!)
    A finally gets the gun, runs the serial number (!!!) all comes back good
    friend says he thinks he is in the right, officers "call their sargent"
    "sargent" says friend can't be detained, but the gun has to be seized for further investigation.
    friend is told most likely the gun will be melted down and he will be charged with illegal posession of a firearm. But they'll call him later to make sure



    Wow... I'm speechless.

    edited for clarity.

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    leprechaun117 wrote:
    Just got filled in on some details...

    officer A initiates traffic stop (young guy)
    officer B arrives as backup (older guy)
    A is at driver's window, B at passenger B pillar
    A asks for the gun to run the serial number (!!!) at which point friend picks up gun (in holster)
    B draws gun and demands friend to drop the weapon (!!!)
    A finally gets the gun, runs the serial number (!!!) all comes back good
    friend says he thinks he is in the right, officers "call their sargent"
    "sargent" says friend can't be detained, but the gun has to be seized for further investigation.
    friend is told most likely the gun will be melted down and he will be charged with illegal posession of a firearm. But they'll call him later to make sure



    Wow... I'm speechless.

    edited for clarity.
    Not defending the actions of the officers..... But I could see where they could be justified in holding something until they had a chance to check on it.

    I think most people do not know that you can legally possess a handgun while being 18-20 years of age. You just CANNOT buy one from a FFL dealer.

    I am aware of this but only learned that HERE!!! Thanks board! I never knew this was Ok. So they may have the idea he cannot have it being under 21. Theycould not give it back thinking it is against the law.

    If is was illegal and they did return it... how would that look.



    Just goes to show that departments need to give more training on gun laws.


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    I would suggest a properlawyer.

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    Your friend have anything in background that would preclude him from owning a firearm restraining order, felony or something?

    If not I would lawyer up real quick, if this happened to me today ie this morning I would take off work to go see alawyerimmediately.

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    by now i'd be sitting in the Albemarle County Police station.......with my lawyer.

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    bayboy42 wrote:
    by now i'd be sitting in the Albemarle County Police station.......with my lawyer.
    +1

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    Now sure I would shell out money for an attorney myself... I would see if I could get it back.. TODAY on my own and save a few dollars. I would have the matter investigated and wait for the outcome.

    The outcome would strengthen my case if I decided to file a suit against the department. Then.. I would be willing to shell out some money.

    I believe that once you go talk to some other parties at the station above those involved.. you will get your gun back.

    Why does everyone jump to an attorney here?

    They charge by the hour and will get paid to sit and waitin the lobby. See what you can do on your own. Then call for reinforcements.



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    LEO 229 heres a question what would happen if the individual who owned the firearm called the state police and reported it stolen? That would atleast create a paper trail so that if anything happens with his firearm he can prove that he was not in possesion.

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    smccomas wrote:
    LEO 229 heres a question what would happen if the individual who owned the firearm called the state police and reported it stolen? That would atleast create a paper trail so that if anything happens with his firearm he can prove that he was not in possesion.
    When the owner provided the details.... the State police would stop and there would be no report.

    If it was taken as evidence or safekeeping... there is no "theft" unless the gun never made it into the property room and could not be accounted for.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    smccomas wrote:
    LEO 229 heres a question what would happen if the individual who owned the firearm called the state police and reported it stolen? That would atleast create a paper trail so that if anything happens with his firearm he can prove that he was not in possesion.
    When the owner provided the details.... the State police would stop and there would be no report.

    If it was taken as evidence or safekeeping... there is no "theft" unless the gun never made it into the property room and could not be accounted for.
    Perhaps this would be a good reason to at least go ask for a reciept for the gun, for added accountability. If they cannot or refuse to provide such, then you might have a basis for reporting it stolen.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Now sure I would shell out money for an attorney myself... I would see if I could get it back.. TODAY on my own and save a few dollars. I would have the matter investigated and wait for the outcome.

    The outcome would strengthen my case if I decided to file a suit against the department. Then.. I would be willing to shell out some money.

    I believe that once you go talk to some other parties at the station above those involved.. you will get your gun back.

    Why does everyone jump to an attorney here?

    They charge by the hour and will get paid to sit and waitin the lobby. See what you can do on your own. Then call for reinforcements.

    In a perfect world that would be fine, we dont live in a perfect world.



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    molonlabetn wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    smccomas wrote:
    LEO 229 heres a question what would happen if the individual who owned the firearm called the state police and reported it stolen? That would atleast create a paper trail so that if anything happens with his firearm he can prove that he was not in possesion.
    When the owner provided the details.... the State police would stop and there would be no report.

    If it was taken as evidence or safekeeping... there is no "theft" unless the gun never made it into the property room and could not be accounted for.
    Perhaps this would be a good reason to at least go ask for a reciept for the gun, for added accountability. If they cannot or refuse to provide such, then you might have a basis for reporting it stolen.

    My agency does not provide a receipt. Someone can confirm it is in the property room. At best... you might be able to get a copy of the property sheet.

    I am not sure why they do not provide a receipt.. Not a bad idea if you ask me.

    But in any case..... I would go talk to the station commander and respectfully request to have it returned immediately since it is legal at age 18 and older.

    Take a copy of the code section for Virginia that proves it if you do not want to wait for the commander to look it up.



    ยง 18.2-308.7. Possession or transportation of certain firearms by persons under the age of 18; penalty.

    It shall be unlawful for any person under 18 years of age to knowingly and intentionally possess or transport a handgun or assault firearm anywhere in the Commonwealth. For the purposes of this section, "handgun" means any pistol or revolver or other firearm originally designed, made and intended to fire single or multiple projectiles by means of an explosion of a combustible material from one or more barrels when held in one hand and "assault firearm" means any (i) semi-automatic centerfire rifle or pistol which expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (ii) shotgun with a magazine which will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered. A violation of this section shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    This section shall not apply to:

    1. Any person (i) while in his home or on his property; (ii) while in the home or on the property of his parent, grandparent, or legal guardian; or (iii) while on the property of another who has provided prior permission, and with the prior permission of his parent or legal guardian if the person has the landowner's written permission on his person while on such property;

    2. Any person who, while accompanied by an adult, is at, or going to and from, a lawful shooting range or firearms educational class, provided that the weapons are unloaded while being transported;

    3. Any person actually engaged in lawful hunting or going to and from a hunting area or preserve, provided that the weapons are unloaded while being transported; and

    4. Any person while carrying out his duties in the Armed Forces of the United States or the National Guard of this Commonwealth or any other state.

  18. #18
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    How can illegally seizing a firearm, even by a police officer, not be theft?

    I mean, does that mean if an officer kills somebody because he didn't like his face it's not murder... since he was a police officer?

    Oh wait.. i forgot... ignorance of the law is not an excuse... unless you are the law.

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    molonlabetn wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    smccomas wrote:
    LEO 229 heres a question what would happen if the individual who owned the firearm called the state police and reported it stolen? That would atleast create a paper trail so that if anything happens with his firearm he can prove that he was not in possesion.
    When the owner provided the details.... the State police would stop and there would be no report.

    If it was taken as evidence or safekeeping... there is no "theft" unless the gun never made it into the property room and could not be accounted for.
    Perhaps this would be a good reason to at least go ask for a reciept for the gun, for added accountability. If they cannot or refuse to provide such, then you might have a basis for reporting it stolen.
    Exactly get something in writing.With out something offical its his word against the officers and he will lose.

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    kurtmax_0 wrote:
    How can illegally seizing a firearm, even by a police officer, not be theft?

    I mean, does that mean if an officer kills somebody because he didn't like his face it's not murder... since he was a police officer?
    Not exactly... There is no true intent to permanently deprive you of the item.

    Not wanting to go off topic... I will try to create a situation when this can happen...

    It is 1AM and I find you walking down the road with6 car stereos in your hands that appear to have been torn from the dashboards of cars. They are not new in the box and you do not live in the area. You cannot tell me where you got them and have no sales slip.

    I cannot possibly check the hundreds of cars on the streets as this will take hours. I do not have any known victims yet because everyone is sleeping. Isuspect you have stolen property in your possession. Do I let you leave with evidence?

    I know.. many people will argue.. no crime.. not reason to stop.

    I can seize the property based on the circumstances. I am going to hold them till the peoplecan check their cars in the morning and discover a missing stereo.

    It is not a theft to seize the items from you. I suspect you have committed a crime and willbecollecting what I believe will turn out to be stolen property.

    If nobody calls the next morning... you can have your stuff back.

    Circumstances will obviously be different during the day since the theft of car stereos normally do not happen in daylight.

    So I believe the cops need more time to check and see if the possession of the handgun violates any laws.

    If they allow you to leave with the gun and find it was a felony.... you now have the evidence in YOUR control and they cannot charge you since... they no longer have the evidence they would need in court.

    I hope this helps in understanding.

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    leprechaun117 wrote:
    A asks for the gun to run the serial number (!!!)
    "sargent" says friend can't be detained, but the gun has to be seized for further investigation.
    friend is told most likely the gun will be melted down and he will be charged with illegal posession of a firearm.

    Unbelievable!!! He was stopped for an expired tag. Where is the probable cause to suspect the gun is part of a crime? What is the justification for even running the serial number, let alone the confiscation? After getting the number, they could quickly determine it wasn't stolen, so what is the justification for "further investigation"?

    This whole thing stinks to high heaven. I agree with others that he needs to contact the chief immediately and demand some answers and an aoplogy. Failing that, contacting VCDL might be in order.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    kurtmax_0 wrote:
    How can illegally seizing a firearm, even by a police officer, not be theft?

    I mean, does that mean if an officer kills somebody because he didn't like his face it's not murder... since he was a police officer?
    Not exactly... There is no true intent to permanently deprive you of the item.

    Not wanting to go off topic... I will try to create a situation when this can happen...

    It is 1AM and I find you walking down the road with6 car stereos in your hands that appear to have been torn from the dashboards of cars. They are not new in the box and you do not live in the area. You cannot tell me where you got them and have no sales slip.

    I cannot possibly check the hundreds of cars on the streets as this will take hours. I do not have any known victims yet because everyone is sleeping. Isuspect you have stolen property in your possession. Do I let you leave with evidence?

    I know.. many people will argue.. no crime.. not reason to stop.

    I can seize the property based on the circumstances. I am going to hold them till the peoplecan check their cars in the morning and discover a missing stereo.

    It is not a theft to seize the items from you. I suspect you have committed a crime and willbecollecting what I believe will turn out to be stolen property.

    If nobody calls the next morning... you can have your stuff back.

    Circumstances will obviously be different during the day since the theft of car stereos normally do not happen in daylight.

    So I believe the cops need more time to check and see if the possession of the handgun violates any laws.

    If they allow you to leave with the gun and find it was a felony.... you now have the evidence in YOUR control and they cannot charge you since... they no longer have the evidence they would need in court.

    I hope this helps in understanding.
    You're comparing apples to oranges again. In the car stereos the only thing in question is whether or not the suspect did something that's clearly illegal. In the case of the seized gun, they siezed it just in case there might be something about what the driver did that might be illegal, when they have NO articuable reason to suspect that a crime has been commited. By your logic, the police could sieze anything, from anyone, at any time just to see if there's some crime they can think up associated with that item.

    Ignorance of the law is no excuse for cops...
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

  23. #23
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    roscoe13 wrote:
    You're comparing apples to oranges again. In the car stereos the only thing in question is whether or not the suspect did something that's clearly illegal. In the case of the seized gun, they siezed it just in case there might be something about what the driver did that might be illegal, when they have NO articuable reason to suspect that a crime has been committed. By your logic, the police could sieze anything, from anyone, at any time just to see if there's some crime they can think up associated with that item.

    Ignorance of the law is no excuse for cops...
    You have missed the point.....

    They believe a crime was being committed but could not find the proper charge. They will need some time to actually locate it.. (They are not aware that it does not exist)

    You are not leaving with the possible evidence!!!

    I hope the short version is easier for you to understand.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    kurtmax_0 wrote:
    How can illegally seizing a firearm, even by a police officer, not be theft?

    I mean, does that mean if an officer kills somebody because he didn't like his face it's not murder... since he was a police officer?
    Not exactly... There is no true intent to permanently deprive you of the item.

    Not wanting to go off topic... I will try to create a situation when this can happen...

    It is 1AM and I find you walking down the road with6 car stereos in your hands that appear to have been torn from the dashboards of cars. They are not new in the box and you do not live in the area. You cannot tell me where you got them and have no sales slip.

    I cannot possibly check the hundreds of cars on the streets as this will take hours. I do not have any known victims yet because everyone is sleeping. Isuspect you have stolen property in your possession. Do I let you leave with evidence?

    I know.. many people will argue.. no crime.. not reason to stop.

    I can seize the property based on the circumstances. I am going to hold them till the peoplecan check their cars in the morning and discover a missing stereo.

    It is not a theft to seize the items from you. I suspect you have committed a crime and willbecollecting what I believe will turn out to be stolen property.

    If nobody calls the next morning... you can have your stuff back.

    Circumstances will obviously be different during the day since the theft of car stereos normally do not happen in daylight.

    So I believe the cops need more time to check and see if the possession of the handgun violates any laws.

    If they allow you to leave with the gun and find it was a felony.... you now have the evidence in YOUR control and they cannot charge you since... they no longer have the evidence they would need in court.

    I hope this helps in understanding.
    Ok...

    For example...this is the VERY reason I get a "sales" reciept when I buy a Gun on the Private Market so that I can PROVE when I got the Gun in case there is an investigation of a serial # that matches the Gun I bought so that I will NOT be charged for anything due to that I can now PROVE when I did or did not have the gun.

    At this very time it cannot be Proven when the Officer took the Gun. It could now be use during an (cough) "undercover OP" and kill somebody and guess who would be wearing a new set of Beautiful Bracelet, courtesy of the PD. NOT the Cop but the Legal Citizen who was taken away his Leagally owned Firearm due to a Lazy A$$ cop that had to run for a Donut run and cuold not resolve the issue right then and there.

    I consider the Cop/ANY Copa thief due to any Civilian would be considered a thief without a reciept.

  25. #25
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    roscoe13 wrote:
    You're comparing apples to oranges again. In the car stereos the only thing in question is whether or not the suspect did something that's clearly illegal. In the case of the seized gun, they siezed it just in case there might be something about what the driver did that might be illegal, when they have NO articuable reason to suspect that a crime has been committed. By your logic, the police could sieze anything, from anyone, at any time just to see if there's some crime they can think up associated with that item.

    Ignorance of the law is no excuse for cops...
    You have missed the point.....

    They believe a crime was being committed but could not find the proper charge. They will need some time to actually locate it.. (They are not aware that it does not exist)

    You are not leaving with the possible evidence!!!

    I hope the short version is easier for you to understand.
    I see your point and understand the logic. Dont agree but I understand.

    This is my perspective.I am responsible for my firearm, I am responsible for every round that leaves its barrel I am responsible for how it is used. The way I would look at it ismy firearm would then be in the possesion of indivdualsI do not know andI may or may not have anyway to prove that they took it.

    Am I supposed to just assume that these clowns are notgoing to do something illegal with it. Its my firearm the rounds in it have my prints.If I am assumed guilty until proven innocent then I assume they are guilty until proven innocent.

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