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Thread: missing thread Q

  1. #1
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    I'm not sure what happened to my Dayton thread. I apologize if the content was overly profane (I don't think it was gratuitous under the circumstances), and maybe it's just as well not to have threads about pending legal action, but it would also have been nice for a moderator to have messaged me as to the deletion, if that's what happened. I did notice some connection problems when I tried to sign on yesterday afternoon, so perhaps it was just a server hiccup - dunno.

    Anyway, I agree that it might be prudent to refrain from further discussion of the matter until it's resolved. Will apprise at that time. Thanks to all the membership for your interest and support.

    -ljp

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    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    I don't think the content was profane enough to be deleted. The forum was down yesterday, but I would guess one of the mods who did you a favor by deleting it so it couldn't be used against you in court. You're right; it seems that it would be wise not to discuss it on a public forum until things are resolved. Let us know what's going on with the situation as you can.

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    Yeah, I like to think that I'm sensible enough not to make any potentially inculpatory admissions or otherwise legally actionable statements in print in a public forum, but still - what's to stop someone from taking something out of context, etc. I'll let everyone know how it turns out if/when it ever ends (I'm beginning to wonder). PM me in the meantime if there are any specific questions. Thanks again for all the interest.

    This isn't ultimately about me - either we have equal justice, or we have no justice.

    -ljp

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    State Researcher .40 Cal's Avatar
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    Are we censoring now?

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    .40 Cal wrote:
    Are we censoring now?
    That's what they can do Boys. I think it was good due to the Legal standpoint. EVERYTHING can be used against you and can lead one way or the other...

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    Folks, we can and do, just not that muchat all and only when necessary. This is still John's private forum and we (including myself) are all his guests. He pays for the software and server out of his own pocket and the last thing we need to do is anything that will get him involved in some legal matter.

    Make sense?

  7. #7
    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    I agree 100%

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    BobCav wrote:
    Folks, we can and do, just not that muchat all and only when necessary. This is still John's private forum and we (including myself) are all his guests. He pays for the software and server out of his own pocket and the last thing we need to do is anything that will get him involved in some legal matter.

    Make sense?
    BobCav I have missed you. Good to see you back.:celebrate

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    BobCav wrote:
    Folks, we can and do, just not that muchat all and only when necessary. This is still John's private forum and we (including myself) are all his guests. He pays for the software and server out of his own pocket and the last thing we need to do is anything that will get him involved in some legal matter.

    Make sense?
    Just to clarify...it was removed?

    And, btw, it's nice to see you back too. Not referring to the thread above, but this place needed some moderation a few weeks back.

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    BB62 wrote:
    BobCav wrote:
    Folks, we can and do, just not that muchat all and only when necessary. This is still John's private forum and we (including myself) are all his guests. He pays for the software and server out of his own pocket and the last thing we need to do is anything that will get him involved in some legal matter.

    Make sense?
    Just to clarify...it was removed?

    And, btw, it's nice to see you back too. Not referring to the thread above, but this place needed some moderation a few weeks back.
    Thanks, BB. Trying to share my time, as it were! I have no idea, I didn't remove it.




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    I'm glad this was asked. I had noticed it went missing myself. IIRC, it had been around for so long that it couldn't possibly be pulled for any such reasons given.

    Furthermore, I'm tired of our 2A brethren speaking of fear of the law. We The People, remember? We have the right to free speech and 2A was crystalized for the sole purpose of preserving our right to be free of fear of inappropriate government action. IF the thread was pulled, I think fear of what could be done is the most cowardly of reasons possible.

    I hope I'm wrong because a forum based on open carry is a very good thing because it represents gun owners--who in my opinion are the forefront of what it means to be an American and what it takes to preserve what makes being an American great--and specifically open carriers--who in my opinion are the leading edge of the leading edge of the same.

  12. #12
    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    It's not about being afraid of the law. It's about "anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law". Anything Legba would post on this forum could be used in the case.To me, it would seem to becommon sense to know that deleting thatthread was a good idea. Anything you say can be twisted to mean something else. By no means am I saying this is definitely what the Dayton Police would do, or the prosecutor. But there are some bad apples out there in the law enforcement world, and it's better safe than sorry. I wonder how you would feel about this if it was your butt, life, money, and freedom to own guns on the line?

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    100

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    "My place, my rules" is all well and good. I've done nothing to make trouble for anyone else, or make matters worse for myself. I'd have appreciated the courtesy of some notice beyond just finding the thread gone. I'll refrain from potentially objectionable content in the future, which pretty much means I won't bother you further. I find it a tad ironic that the "because we can" self-justification is at the very core of my complaint about the conduct of the police... none of this is "necessary" at all. Goodbye and good luck.

    Thought for the day: Matthew 10:36.

    -ljp


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    dngreer wrote:
    It's not about being afraid of the law. It's about "anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law"... I wonder how you would feel about this if it was your butt, life, money, and freedom to own guns on the line?
    How quickly Ohioans forget. With the exception of choosing a different username, I haven't been the least bit shy about the fact that I am Dan Sayers. I was involved in the second most publicized wrongful arrest concerning possession of a firearm in 2006. I remember there was a steady flow of people telling me to shutup. I was innocent. I did ZERO wrong on the day in question. They weren't even in their own city, they had no probable cause, they used excessive force, they followed it with coverup and other forms of misconduct... What could I possibly say that could've been used against me? It's just a fear tactic used by those who would be too timid to stand up against bad laws, crooked enforcers, and the like to discourage those who are NOT afraid. It's more shameful than being against the Second Amendment in the first place.

    Remember, he didn't discharge his firearm. He didn't even have it loaded. IIRC, unidentified individuals without probable cause forcibly arrested him and confiscated possessions that weren't even in plain sight and followed it up by stating that they could do that and he'd never get them back even with due process. NOTHING he could say would change the many ways what happened to him was Constitutionally illegal under color of law and/or violations of his civil rights. Therefore, the last thing ANY OF US could ever do is suggest for a moment that what happened to him had any merit whatsoever. This includes the shameful act of silencing him for the sole purpose of "protecting" him.

    Long time ago, I had a girlfriend whose good intentions were a bit bigger than her brain. I had to tell her something that once it came out of my mouth, I rather enjoyed the way that it sounded: Never superceded MY will for MY sake. Legba has demonstrated that he's aware that "what he says can be used against him in a court of law." Should he choose to speak anyways, that's HIS choice.

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    Demarest wrote:
    dngreer wrote:
    It's not about being afraid of the law. It's about "anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law"... I wonder how you would feel about this if it was your butt, life, money, and freedom to own guns on the line?
    How quickly Ohioans forget. With the exception of choosing a different username, I haven't been the least bit shy about the fact that I am Dan Sayers. I was involved in the second most publicized wrongful arrest concerning possession of a firearm in 2006. I remember there was a steady flow of people telling me to shutup. I was innocent. I did ZERO wrong on the day in question. They weren't even in their own city, they had no probable cause, they used excessive force, they followed it with coverup and other forms of misconduct... What could I possibly say that could've been used against me? It's just a fear tactic used by those who would be too timid to stand up against bad laws, crooked enforcers, and the like to discourage those who are NOT afraid. It's more shameful than being against the Second Amendment in the first place.

    Remember, he didn't discharge his firearm. He didn't even have it loaded. IIRC, unidentified individuals without probable cause forcibly arrested him and confiscated possessions that weren't even in plain sight and followed it up by stating that they could do that and he'd never get them back even with due process. NOTHING he could say would change the many ways what happened to him was Constitutionally illegal under color of law and/or violations of his civil rights. Therefore, the last thing ANY OF US could ever do is suggest for a moment that what happened to him had any merit whatsoever. This includes the shameful act of silencing him for the sole purpose of "protecting" him.

    Long time ago, I had a girlfriend whose good intentions were a bit bigger than her brain. I had to tell her something that once it came out of my mouth, I rather enjoyed the way that it sounded: Never superceded MY will for MY sake. Legba has demonstrated that he's aware that "what he says can be used against him in a court of law." Should he choose to speak anyways, that's HIS choice.
    I thank you, sincerely. You of all people surely understand my plight. I was not making trouble for anyone, then or now, and I am mindful of my rights. I've been somewhat profane in my disgust, but then I respectfully submit that what has happened to me - and is happening yet -ought to disgust anyone who values liberty. Sorry if I gave offense, but I was reporting objectively on events as they occurred, and not making pleadings or opening anyone to any liability.

    I face presentation of the matter to a grand jury (objective fact) and we'll see how it pans out from there. Sorry if this isn't PG-13 stuff, but I'm not Walt Disney.

    -ljp

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    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    Legba wrote:
    I thank you, sincerely. You of all people surely understand my plight. I was not making trouble for anyone, then or now, and I am mindful of my rights. I've been somewhat profane in my disgust, but then I respectfully submit that what has happened to me - and is happening yet -ought to disgust anyone who values liberty. Sorry if I gave offense, but I was reporting objectively on events as they occurred, and not making pleadings or opening anyone to any liability.

    I face presentation of the matter to a grand jury (objective fact) and we'll see how it pans out from there. Sorry if this isn't PG-13 stuff, but I'm not Walt Disney.

    -ljp
    Legba, I don't think you were trying to make trouble for anyone. That's not what I was saying. I think like Bob said, itwas deleted to protect opencarry.com, just in case, but it might have done you a favor in the long run, who knows? But you're an adult, and can make your own decisions about what you choose to talk about regarding the matter, I understand that. I don't want it to seem as if I am "against" you. Good luck fighting this and like I said before, let us know what's going on as you want (or can).

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    I meant no slur against you, greer. I appreciate that situations like this can be sensitive, but I am more sensible than to make inculpatory statements, or to embroil anyone else in my legal difficulties. I just have to wonder what the hell the forum is really about when the authorities carry on like this and an advocate of guns rights is being silenced in the interests of... what exactly? Are the Dayton police going to send death squads after Mike? Is my use of profanity more objectionable than warrantless searches and seizires? Do we all have to become victims a la Sayers before it's OK to opine about the unreasonableness of it all? I submit not, and if we can't agree on that, then this isn't the place for me.

    It happened to us, and we are not special. Either we all have rights or none of us does.

    -ljp

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    I, too, was wondering what had happened to the thread.Hang in there.

    TrueBrit.

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    Legba wrote:
    Is my use of profanity more objectionable than warrantless searches and seizires?
    A fantastic question.

    Legba wrote:
    I've been somewhat profane in my disgust, but then I respectfully submit that what has happened to me - and is happening yet -ought to disgust anyone who values liberty.
    Yep. Just like you stated in the upper quote, I was shocked to see SOME (not most, thankfully) were more concerned with my language than what provoked it. Then, like this quote, I agree that anybody that has that happen to them and does NOT use language like that has REAL anger management issues.

    Rape victims at least have the peace of mind that if they survive, they can call the police. How then do others suppose it would feel if your assailant IS the police. What do you say? "Hold on a minute, I'm calling the police. Hello, Dispatch? Yes, please send the police to ______. I'm being kidnapped and robbed at gunpoint by the very people I pay to protect me and was raised to believe are the good guys." As if.


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    Well, nobody ever exactly said why it was deleted. The presumption is that is was to avoid exposing the forum to some liability, but that really isn't an established fact. I would have settled for someone in authority just telling me/us some kind of acceptable limits on content. Make up a list of approved topics and terms, and we'll go from there (to another forum, I expect). Mike et al are not going to get run in like I was over this - no worries.

    -ljp

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    ..........................................:what:

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    I'll be handling all further inquiries into this matter by private message and/or e-mail. Let it suffice to say that I'm so pissed off after this morning's call to The Man that I'm shaking, and my physician has recommended sedation. I will not submit.

    -ljp

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