• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

What is your interperation of this..............

muzz3256

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
118
Location
Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
imported post

http://www.virginia.edu/uvapolice/firearmspolicy.htm

UVa Police Firearms Policy

The possession, storage or use of any kind of ammunition, firearms, fireworks, explosives, air rifles and air pistols on University-owned or operated property, without the expressed written permission of the University police, is prohibited.

Requests for permission should be addressed in advance to the University Police Department where they will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis in accordance with State and federal law and the safety of the University community.

Wouldn't this be illegal under the preemption laws? It does not specify wether student, staff, faculty, or general citizen, but it's almost worded like a general ban. Worthy of typing an e-mail about?
 

67GT390FB

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Messages
860
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
imported post

MUZZ,

I would send the email requesting clarification.

i saw this while perusing the website as well.

"The University, as with any other public or private entity, cannot assure or guarantee a crime free living or working environment. Accordingly, it is the responsibility of members of the University community to act in a security conscious manner and to avoid actions which jeopardize their security as well as the security of others. Members of the faculty, staff, and student body should report all crimes, hazards, emergencies, or dangerous situations to the Police Department. "

It is "funny" how they tell you that you have the responsibilty to act in a security conscious manner and then turn around and deny you the ability to do so.

Joe

BSARCH97
 

Eeyore

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
551
Location
the meanest city in the stupidest state
imported post

Requests for permission should be addressed in advance to the University Police Department where they will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis in accordance with State and federal law and the safety of the University community.



Given that the statement appears on the general UVA Police website, and not in a student/employee handbook, makes it look like a general ban to me. However, they'll probably argue that the second paragraph (above) makes it somehow less than a general ban. So the fundamental question is, how will they deal with "requests for permission?" IANAL, but I would argue that they couldn't deny them to anyone who is legally eligible to own a firearm without exposing themselves to a lawsuit. Wanna be a test case?

Wahoowa.:cool:
 

Neplusultra

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,224
Location
Christiansburg, Virginia, USA
imported post

Eeyore wrote:
Requests for permission should be addressed in advance to the University Police Department where they will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis in accordance with State and federal law and the safety of the University community.



Given that the statement appears on the general UVA Police website, and not in a student/employee handbook, makes it look like a general ban to me. However, they'll probably argue that the second paragraph (above) makes it somehow less than a general ban. So the fundamental question is, how will they deal with "requests for permission?" IANAL, but I would argue that they couldn't deny them to anyone who is legally eligible to own a firearm without exposing themselves to a lawsuit. Wanna be a test case?

Wahoowa.:cool:
Asking permission to excercise a "right"? We don't need no stinkin' permission to enjoy our rights......
 

Dutch Uncle

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 11, 2006
Messages
1,715
Location
Virginia, USA
imported post

Eeyore wrote:
So the fundamental question is, how will they deal with "requests for permission?"
You need to ask?! I'm sure they've got a nice big "REJECTED" rubber stamp all ready to go.
 

CPerdue

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Messages
235
Location
Salem, ,
imported post

Va. Code
§ 15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.

A. No locality ...

I believe the universities are not localities, and so not preempted. Really, really sucks. IANAL, maybe 'locality' doesn't mean what Webster's says it means?

C.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

67GT390FB wrote:
SNIP
"The University, as with any other public or private entity, cannot assure or guarantee a crime free living or working environment. Accordingly, it is the responsibility of members of the University community to act in a security conscious manner and to avoid actions which jeopardize their security as well as the security of others. Members of the faculty, staff, and student body should report all crimes, hazards, emergencies, or dangerous situations to the Police Department. "

Well, right there they tell you to avoid going around unarmed.
 

CPerdue

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Messages
235
Location
Salem, ,
imported post

I presume you are either not a student or will not be for long. Have fun, I'll do the same at VT this weekend.
 

muzz3256

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
118
Location
Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
imported post

I have OC'd on campus many times, nothing has ever happened. This all started because I am thinking about trying to CC into the football game on saturday, to see what happens, if I get through, I want to try to OC at the next home game that I can go to.

The way I look at it, I carry everywhere else that I go, why should a football game be any different. Oh and yes I have a CHP.
 

muzz3256

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
118
Location
Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
imported post

Here is the reply I got:

Mr. [Redacted],

Thank you for your e-mail. The University expects compliance with this policy by anyone using University facilities including students, faculty and staff on Grounds or other University property.

Best Regards,

Michael Gibson
Chief of Police
University of Virginia
 

UTOC-45-44

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
2,579
Location
Morgan, Utah, USA
imported post

muzz3256 wrote:
Here is the reply I got:

Mr. [Redacted],

Thank you for your e-mail. The University expects compliance with this policy by anyone using University facilities including students, faculty and staff on Grounds or other University property.

Best Regards,

Michael Gibson
Chief of Police
University of Virginia
Poilicy is NOT law. Sure they can ask you to leave and if you don't = Trespass. They cannot procecute you for complying to the Law but ask you to leave for not complying with their POLICIES.
 

Dutch Uncle

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 11, 2006
Messages
1,715
Location
Virginia, USA
imported post

UTOC-45-44 wrote:
muzz3256 wrote:
Here is the reply I got:

Mr. [Redacted],

Thank you for your e-mail. The University expects compliance with this policy by anyone using University facilities including students, faculty and staff on Grounds or other University property.

Best Regards,

Michael Gibson
Chief of Police
University of Virginia
Poilicy is NOT law. Sure they can ask you to leave and if you don't = Trespass. They cannot procecute you for complying to the Law but ask you to leave for not complying with their POLICIES.
I don't think they can even charge someone with trespass, since this is only an option for a private organization. UVA is public, so its policies should be pre empted by state firearms laws. Chet Szymecki OC'd to a York County school board meeting and all the deputies could do was watch him. He was a public citizen in a public place, so how could he have been "trespassing?
 

Eeyore

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
551
Location
the meanest city in the stupidest state
imported post

muzz3256 wrote:
Here is the reply I got:

Mr. [Redacted],

Thank you for your e-mail. The University expects compliance with this policy by anyone using University facilities including students, faculty and staff on Grounds or other University property.

Best Regards,

Michael Gibson
Chief of Police
University of Virginia
Great!:dude: As a non-student, non-staff, non-faculty I guess I can carry all I want!
 

muzz3256

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
118
Location
Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
imported post

Eeyore wrote:
muzz3256 wrote:
Here is the reply I got:

Mr. [Redacted],

Thank you for your e-mail. The University expects compliance with this policy by anyone using University facilities including students, faculty and staff on Grounds or other University property.

Best Regards,

Michael Gibson
Chief of Police
University of Virginia
Great!:dude: As a non-student, non-staff, non-faculty I guess I can carry all I want!

That has become my outlook on it!
 

mobeewan

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
652
Location
Hampton, Va, ,
imported post

CPerdue wrote:
Va. Code
§ 15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.

A. No locality ...

I believe the universities are not localities, and so not preempted. Really, really sucks. IANAL, maybe 'locality' doesn't mean what Webster's says it means?

C.

You and I can carry concealed and open on the public college and university campuses in Virginia as long as we are not students and employed by the institution. By law they can only make rules governing conduct of students, faculty and staff.

Here is the entire statute. I believe the section I hilighted is pertinent to colleges which are defined here as localities by this phrase. It is the same reason the airport authority in NorVa cannot ban firearms in the parking lot and in your vehicle on the roadways as they tried doing in the past.

§ 15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.
A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by § 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization.
Nothing in this section shall prohibit a locality from adopting workplace rules relating to terms and conditions of employment of the workforce. Nothing in this section shall prohibit a law-enforcement officer, as defined in § 9.1-101 from acting within the scope of his duties.
The provisions of this section applicable to a locality shall also apply to any authority or to a local governmental entity, including a department or agency, but not including any local or regional jail or juvenile detention facility.
B. Any local ordinance, resolution or motion adopted prior to the effective date of this act governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, other than those expressly authorized by statute, is invalid.
(1987, c. 629, § 15.1-29.15; 1988, c. 392; 1997, cc. 550, 587; 2002, c. 484; 2003, c. 943; 2004, cc. 837, 923.)
 
Top