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Thread: so what if

  1. #1
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    a guy comes into a pawn shop looking for a revolver.

    when you get to the case to show the revolvers and ask what for he say's for his mom, and for defense.

    we he finds the one he wants he asks "how much down from $200 can you take this", you ask what he's looking for he says "i was hoping to find something about $100, so as close to that as possible" you both agree on $150.

    in purchasing he whips out his license and CWP, talks about how he's bought a similar pistol there before (which is later confirmed when being entered into the book keeping computer).

    passes the federal call in just fine, when filling out the state transfer paperwork he screws up and puts the street address, state, zip, etc.. on the same line, tells you "dangit, i screwed up... i'm sorry, i always screw something up". so you hand him another, which he screws up again (fills in the address, and all that one line up, forgetting about the name field). he's looking pretty flustered at this point.

    the third time he FINALLY gets it right.


    is it just me, or would you ask a few extra questions at this point.... maybe i'm just extra cautious, but when i worked at a gas station you couldn't buy beer or smokes if you were having that much trouble.



    BTW bought my mom a cheap .38 special for her birthday, figure a wheel gun she can actually see if there is a bullet in it (she was having trouble with that with her pump .22 rifle)

  2. #2
    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    He just sounds really nervous to me. Maybe he had never bought a gun before. Were you thinking he might be high, or something alongthose lines?

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    I dunno....I always screw up the first copy of that form....I hate government forms, and the way that one is designed is specifically into tricking you to make the wrong answer so you can't purchase the firearm. Just look at it real hard sometime, and it is pretty obvious they are making the language and design of the form just hard enough to where you get confused about what the answer you're putting down really means on the paper. I always take some time to fill that out because it's easy to mess up.

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    it was a pretty busy pawn shop, too many people running in circles i was having some trouble paying attention to what i was doing.... that and i've always sucked at forms

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    The first time I filled out one of those forms, I got off on the wrong line as well. I wouldn't think much about it unless he obviously looked higher than a kite.

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    Okie Outlaw wrote:
    The first time I filled out one of those forms, I got off on the wrong line as well. I wouldn't think much about it unless he obviously looked higher than a kite.
    i've filled out the forms more times than i've filled out a job application, cops often think i'm high because i have a tremor (makes handguns even more fun when i shake) and an anxiety disorder, so in a room with a few people i shake a bunch and my face gets red.

    the guy that screwed up the forms was me.

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Yup, almost always takes me 2 forms.

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    I just carry a big 8.5"x11" rubber stamp to fill in the whole front page at once.



    :celebrate

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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    I bought two 91/59 mosins from Big 5 in the same day, but it was early morning and I had had only an hour's sleep the night before because I was so excited to get them. My hands shook and my mind couldn't concentrate, due to sleep deprivation. I made one mistake on both forms (one at each of two stores). You'd think that I would have breezed through the second one without a hitch since I'd just done one a half-hour before. Fortunately, they accept a line-out with an initial and date, so I didn't have to redo the whole thing.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
    KF7GEA

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    If I only had a dollar for every form I screwed something up on.

    If I did I would be posting this from a nice breezy Caribbean island that I owned.:celebrate



    You aren't human unless you screw up at least once on a Government Form.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    amlevin wrote:
    ...snip...
    You aren't human unless you screw up at least once on a Government Form.
    In that case I am super-human

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    molonlabetn wrote:
    amlevin wrote:
    ...snip...
    You aren't human unless you screw up at least once on a Government Form.
    In that case I am super-human
    It would be nice to have just ONE form for everything. Have a few dozen pre-printed. Just enter the purpose in a special box and hand it in. Look at the time we would all save just in filling out the same info, over and over again.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    I think you just made a straw purchase--not that I care, just be careful.

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    Reverend73 wrote:
    I think you just made a straw purchase--not that I care, just be careful.
    when i bought the one for my fiancee for christmas i was told it was okay, got it through H&H anglers here in bellingham (recently closed), they seemed to know their stuff and told me it was fine because it was a gift.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Reverend73 wrote:
    I think you just made a straw purchase--not that I care, just be careful.
    "A straw purchase is any purchase where the buyer is not eligible to own the purchased item according to the law and therefore purchases the item through a proxy buyer. "

    If the person recieving the gun could have purchased it themselves or othewise legally possessed the gun there is no "Straw Purchase".

    Now if the OP's "Mother" was an axe murderer or serial killer (convicted of course) then that would be another story.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    You didn't do anything wrong. Everybody messes the forms up from time to time.

    And it's not a straw purchase, don't worry.

  17. #17
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    amlevin wrote:
    Reverend73 wrote:
    I think you just made a straw purchase--not that I care, just be careful.
    "A straw purchase is any purchase where the buyer is not eligible to own the purchased item according to the law and therefore purchases the item through a proxy buyer. "

    If the person recieving the gun could have purchased it themselves or othewise legally possessed the gun there is no "Straw Purchase".

    Now if the OP's "Mother" was an axe murderer or serial killer (convicted of course) then that would be another story.
    That's not the case.

    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/ffrrg/ltright.htm

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    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
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    If MOM is paying for the gun, it's a straw purchase and both of them are in trouble. If the purchase is a gift for Mom, it should be ok.

    At least thats the way I understand it.

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    This whole discussion made me think of a post I saw on another forum:

    .....Its my understanding that under the terms of GCA68 it is against the law to sell a Gun to someone you know is planning suicide; murder; robbery- whatever. It would be interesting to see the results, if a gunstore refused to sell Guns to LEOs on the basis that being a LEO is ipso facto proof of intent to violate people's civil liberties.


  20. #20
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Right Wing Wacko wrote:
    If MOM is paying for the gun, it's a straw purchase and both of them are in trouble. If the purchase is a gift for Mom, it should be ok.

    At least thats the way I understand it.
    If both parties can legally posses a firearm it doesn't make any difference who pays or who buys it is not a "Straw Purchase". If one is not able to legally posses then it is a Straw Purchase. It is really rather simple.

    BTW, if MOM is prohibited from owning a firearm for any reason then even a "gift" would be illegal.


    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
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    amlevin wrote:
    Right Wing Wacko wrote:
    If MOM is paying for the gun, it's a straw purchase and both of them are in trouble. If the purchase is a gift for Mom, it should be ok.

    At least thats the way I understand it.
    If both parties can legally posses a firearm it doesn't make any difference who pays or who buys it is not a "Straw Purchase". If one is not able to legally posses then it is a Straw Purchase. It is really rather simple.

    BTW, if MOM is prohibited from owning a firearm for any reason then even a "gift" would be illegal.

    Unfortuatly thats not true.

    From the BATF web site:
    Keep in mind that a straw purchase is a purchase in which the actual purchaser uses someone else—a.k.a. the “straw person”—to purchase the firearm and complete the paperwork. Generally, the straw purchaser is used because the actual purchaser is not eligible to conduct a transaction because he or she is a felon or other prohibited person. However, a straw purchase occurs even when the actual purchaser is not a prohibited person. The crime committed is knowingly making a false statement on the Form 4473 indicating that the straw purchaser is the actual purchaser, when this is not the case. Additionally make sure you familiarize yourself and anyone who purchases a firearm as a gift with the rules associated with the ATF I 5300.2 pamphlet.

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    Right Wing Wacko wrote:
    If MOM is paying for the gun, it's a straw purchase and both of them are in trouble. If the purchase is a gift for Mom, it should be ok.

    At least thats the way I understand it.
    IIRC Sarah Brady bought a 30.06 rifle as a Christmas present for her son. Lots of people screamed "straw purchase" at her, but was legal as both parties could legally own a gun.

    Steve

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    sv_libertarian wrote:
    Right Wing Wacko wrote:
    If MOM is paying for the gun, it's a straw purchase and both of them are in trouble. If the purchase is a gift for Mom, it should be ok.

    At least thats the way I understand it.
    IIRC Sarah Brady bought a 30.06 rifle as a Christmas present for her son. Lots of people screamed "straw purchase" at her, but was legal as both parties could legally own a gun.

    Steve
    IIRC A gift is a gift as long as the person can legally own the gun. However, it is a straw purchase, no matter what, if person A gives person B money to go buy a gun from C (C can be a shop or another person). This is NOT the same as B buying a gun from C with his own money, keeping it for a while, deciding he doesn't like it or needs money, and then selling it to A.

    The whole point is that there is no logic in having person B buy the gun for you unless you are ineligible. If B wants to buy A a gift, that is fine... but A should have no logical/lawful purpose in having B buy him a gun with his own money.


    Just think about this one logically; the law, IIRC, makes logical sense in this instance.

    IANAL, I could be wrong as I don't have time to look it up right now, but that is how I remember it.

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    joshmmm wrote:

    The whole point is that there is no logic in having person B buy the gun for you unless you are ineligible. If B wants to buy A a gift, that is fine... but A should have no logical/lawful purpose in having B buy him a gun with his own money.
    Unless, of course, person A decides that whole bit about "the government deletes all information about a gun purchaser's identity as soon as the NICS is completed" is a bunch of malarkey.....

    So...how many of YOU believe?

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    Phssthpok wrote:
    joshmmm wrote:

    The whole point is that there is no logic in having person B buy the gun for you unless you are ineligible. If B wants to buy A a gift, that is fine... but A should have no logical/lawful purpose in having B buy him a gun with his own money.
    Unless, of course, person A decides that whole bit about "the government deletes all information about a gun purchaser's identity as soon as the NICS is completed" is a bunch of malarkey.....

    So...how many of YOU believe?
    If you don't believe them I honestly don't know what to tell you other than to go buy a gun from a private seller...

    That aside, the GAO performs audits, whistleblowers win when the expose a breach of the law, etc. I personally believe them 100% on this... and look at the thread about the voluntary appeal thread to see evidence of this deletion working...

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