Citizen
Founder's Club Member
imported post
Of course, part of being prepared fornext time is an examination of what could have been done better this time.
Lets hear the ideasfellas. If it had been you,what would you have said? Pick a point that stands out in your mind and give a suggestion.
For example,near the end the officer says, "You’ve been sitting here for ten minutes on your own."
The drivershoulda said, "If you thinkI'll let youinfringe my 4th and 5th Amend. rights to save ten minutes, you've got another think coming."
Here's the link and transcript for reference:
http://tinyurl.com/2n3j96
Traffic Stop 9-8-07
Date/Time: 9/8/07 2:54 PM
Location: Fairfax County, VA
Officer Buckholtz: How you doing? Got your license and registration on you, please?
Driver: Yeah.
Officer Buckholtz: Driver's license?
Driver: Um hmm.
Driver: Why did you pull me over, officer?
Officer Buckholtz: Because you have a brake light out on the left hand side, there.
Driver: OK.
Officer Buckholtz: Do you have a driver’s license?
Driver: Yeah, I’m getting it now.
Officer Buckholtz: Huh?
Driver: I’m getting it out now.
Officer Buckholtz: OK. Stay in the car. I’ll be right with you. OK?
Driver: Yes, sir.
[next few lines about address redacted from audio]
Officer Buckholtz: Still live on _________?
Driver: I’m sorry?
Officer Buckholtz: You still live on _______?
Driver: Yeah. Its just back up there at ___________.
Officer Buckholtz: OK. [Officer Buckholtz takes information back to cruiser.]
[Move slider to 0:06:14 toskiplistening totraffic go bywhile officer is in patrol car.]
[At 0:05:30 into audio recording driver turns on radio. At 0:05:39 into audio recording, driver makes a verbal time stamp]
Driver: Its about 3 pm. 3:01 pm. Been here about three minutes.
[Move slider to 0:06:14. At this point Officer Buckholtz returns from the cruiser.]
Officer Buckholtz: OK. Do you have your weapon on you, sir?
Driver: Yes, sir. I do.
Officer Buckholtz: OK. Why didn’t you tell me that initially?
Driver: Because there’s no requirement to notify in Virginia.
Officer Buckholtz: Correct. You are correct. But you know what? When I brought that on my computer, and I see that, and had you gotten out of the car, you would have been shot. Without a doubt.
Driver: That’s a little bit of a …
Officer Buckholtz: Without a doubt.
Driver: Am I getting a warning or a citation?
Officer Buckholtz: You are getting a warning, sir.
Driver: Well, thank you.
Officer Buckholtz: So that may be something you want to divulge when you, uh, when you get pulled over from now on. OK?
Driver: The, uh, that’s a rather strong circumstance for a citizen who’s passed a backround check in order to get that CHP.
Officer Buckholtz: I’m not, I’m not, I’m not, I’m not arguing with you about that. But what I’m saying is…
Driver: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. You are.
Officer Buckholtz: If I know there is a gun in the car, there are different parameters that I deal with. OK?
Driver: Sir, um. [Looks at Warning ticket] Buckholtz?
Officer Buckholtz: Yes, sir.
Driver: Oh, you and I have spoken before, I think.
Officer Buckholtz: I don’t know if we have or not.
Driver: Alright. The, um, you just criticized me for not notifying you. You’re…
Officer Buckholtz: Your did. You’re right. Its not required by law. I said, I made, I simply made a suggestion that it would probably be a good idea.
Driver: No, you didn’t simply make a suggestion, sir.
Officer Buckholtz: I certainly did.
Driver: You criticized me for it.
Officer Buckholtz: I didn’t criticize anything. I said that would probably be a good idea because had you gotten out of the car you probably would have been shot is what I said. And it’s a suggestion. That’s what I said. It’s a suggestion. If you don’t want to that’s completely your perogative. Its simply a suggestion.
Driver: Officer Buckholtz?
Officer Buckholtz: Yes, sir.
Driver: You didn’t suggest it.
Officer Buckholtz: OK, well that’s how I [unintelligible] a suggestion
Driver: Your, your, your tone of voice indicated that you were clearly criticizing me for not notifying you.
Officer Buckholtz: It wasn’t a criticize. It was…well that wasn’t my intention, sir. It was merely a, um, suggestion that you, that would probably be a good idea for you to notify a law enforcement officer if there is a weapon in the vehicle.
Driver: I disagree, sir. I have…
Officer Buckholtz: That’s your perogative to disagree.
Driver: I have a CHP. I passed a backround check to get that. So why is a police officer worried about a citizen who’s passed a backround check?
Officer Buckholtz: Who is carrying a gun?
Driver: Yes, sir.
Officer Buckholtz: OK.
Driver: Why is a officer worried about…
Officer Buckholtz: Put yourself in my position.
Driver: …with a citizen who has…
Officer Buckholtz: Well, just put yourself in my position.
Driver: OK.
Officer Buckholtz: OK. You’re an officer back here…
Driver: Right.
Officer Buckholtz: You don’t know that, that I have a gun.
Driver: Well, wait a minute. Police…
[Both try to talk at same time.]
Officer Buckholtz: You wanted to play the role.
Driver: Alright.
Officer Buckholtz: You don’t, you don’t know that I have a gun. OK? You’re sitting there…
[Both try to talk at same time.]
Driver: You as a police officer…
Officer Buckholtz: …comes up and says he’s potentially got a gun. And you start stepping out of your car. What do I do?
Driver: Whoa, whoa, whoa. I can see your soft body armor.
Officer Buckholtz: Right.
Driver: You assume you are going to meet people who are armed.
Officer Buckholtz: Correct.
Driver: Alright. And do you…
Officer Buckholtz: I don’t expect to get shot at, though.
Driver: Do you, do your, do your protocols not require you to approach my car right where you’re standing.
Officer Buckholtz: Negative. I can approach you where my partner’s at over here.
Driver: Who’s behind the window and the line of fire where if I have a firearm and intend to…
Officer Buckholtz: Now you’re getting into tactics.
Driver: But that’s, that’s where your tactics are.
Officer Buckholtz: Well, what if you’re left handed?
Driver: Oh, yeah. By the time [motion with empty left hand out window, making a "pistol" with fingers to show difficulty for left-hander to take officer under fire] here…
Officer Buckholtz: You know. [Unintelligle—both talking]…find out already?
Driver: So, if I….
Officer Buckholtz: What if you have it in between the seats?
Driver: If I send a Freedom of Information Act request for your General Orders on how to perform traffic stops…
Officer Buckholtz: You don’t even have to. You can go down to the library and get it.
Driver: OK. And there will be nothing in there about you expecting and being ready for an armed encounter.
Officer Buckholtz: We’re always ready for an armed encounter.
Driver: Exactly.
Officer Buckholtz: Which is what I’m saying. Had you gotten out of that car. Now, knowing that you’re armed…
Driver: um hmm
Officer Buckholtz: …you probably would have been shot. That’s what I’m saying.
Driver: Well, thank you for announcing in advance that you would, uh, infringe on my 5[suP]th[/suP] Amendment rights. [deprived of life without due process of law]
Officer Buckholtz: And how is that?
Driver: You’re shooting at a citizen who is getting out of the car…
Officer Buckholtz: No, no, no. An armed subject.
Driver: …with no weapons in his hands. Aah, that's real good.
Officer Buckholtz: You were told to stay in your car.
Driver:: Yes. And you noticed that I observed that instruction very carefully, didn’t you?
Officer Buckholtz: Absolutely. Absolutely. I’m very, I’m very glad you did.
Driver: So, so, why the criticism?
Officer Buckholtz: It wasn’t a criticism? It was a suggestion, sir.
Driver: Well, that it wasn’t.
Officer Buckholtz: Well, you can perceive it any way you like. It was meant as a criticism. Or not, as uh, as a uh, you know…[I speak, and being closer to the recorder drown part of Buckholtz’s response]…meant as a criticism for it.
Driver: Officer Buckholtz. I think you, I don’t think we’re going to get anywhere with this conversation.
Officer Buckholtz: I d…, I agree. We probably won’t.
Driver: Am I free to go?
Officer Buckholtz: Yes, sir. You have been the whole time.
Driver: Well, that’s not for sure true. You told me to sit right here. And wait.
Officer Buckholtz: After, well what did, what did I tell you after your li..., after I gave your license back. [unintelligible]…go.
Driver: You did tell me to go. Yes. Very good.
Officer Buckholtz: You’ve been sitting here for ten minutes on your own.
Driver: Ha. Ha. Yeah, right.
Officer Buckholtz: OK? I thank you, sir.
Driver: Bye, bye. [end of encounter][/i]
Of course, part of being prepared fornext time is an examination of what could have been done better this time.
Lets hear the ideasfellas. If it had been you,what would you have said? Pick a point that stands out in your mind and give a suggestion.
For example,near the end the officer says, "You’ve been sitting here for ten minutes on your own."
The drivershoulda said, "If you thinkI'll let youinfringe my 4th and 5th Amend. rights to save ten minutes, you've got another think coming."
Here's the link and transcript for reference:
http://tinyurl.com/2n3j96
Traffic Stop 9-8-07
Date/Time: 9/8/07 2:54 PM
Location: Fairfax County, VA
Officer Buckholtz: How you doing? Got your license and registration on you, please?
Driver: Yeah.
Officer Buckholtz: Driver's license?
Driver: Um hmm.
Driver: Why did you pull me over, officer?
Officer Buckholtz: Because you have a brake light out on the left hand side, there.
Driver: OK.
Officer Buckholtz: Do you have a driver’s license?
Driver: Yeah, I’m getting it now.
Officer Buckholtz: Huh?
Driver: I’m getting it out now.
Officer Buckholtz: OK. Stay in the car. I’ll be right with you. OK?
Driver: Yes, sir.
[next few lines about address redacted from audio]
Officer Buckholtz: Still live on _________?
Driver: I’m sorry?
Officer Buckholtz: You still live on _______?
Driver: Yeah. Its just back up there at ___________.
Officer Buckholtz: OK. [Officer Buckholtz takes information back to cruiser.]
[Move slider to 0:06:14 toskiplistening totraffic go bywhile officer is in patrol car.]
[At 0:05:30 into audio recording driver turns on radio. At 0:05:39 into audio recording, driver makes a verbal time stamp]
Driver: Its about 3 pm. 3:01 pm. Been here about three minutes.
[Move slider to 0:06:14. At this point Officer Buckholtz returns from the cruiser.]
Officer Buckholtz: OK. Do you have your weapon on you, sir?
Driver: Yes, sir. I do.
Officer Buckholtz: OK. Why didn’t you tell me that initially?
Driver: Because there’s no requirement to notify in Virginia.
Officer Buckholtz: Correct. You are correct. But you know what? When I brought that on my computer, and I see that, and had you gotten out of the car, you would have been shot. Without a doubt.
Driver: That’s a little bit of a …
Officer Buckholtz: Without a doubt.
Driver: Am I getting a warning or a citation?
Officer Buckholtz: You are getting a warning, sir.
Driver: Well, thank you.
Officer Buckholtz: So that may be something you want to divulge when you, uh, when you get pulled over from now on. OK?
Driver: The, uh, that’s a rather strong circumstance for a citizen who’s passed a backround check in order to get that CHP.
Officer Buckholtz: I’m not, I’m not, I’m not, I’m not arguing with you about that. But what I’m saying is…
Driver: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. You are.
Officer Buckholtz: If I know there is a gun in the car, there are different parameters that I deal with. OK?
Driver: Sir, um. [Looks at Warning ticket] Buckholtz?
Officer Buckholtz: Yes, sir.
Driver: Oh, you and I have spoken before, I think.
Officer Buckholtz: I don’t know if we have or not.
Driver: Alright. The, um, you just criticized me for not notifying you. You’re…
Officer Buckholtz: Your did. You’re right. Its not required by law. I said, I made, I simply made a suggestion that it would probably be a good idea.
Driver: No, you didn’t simply make a suggestion, sir.
Officer Buckholtz: I certainly did.
Driver: You criticized me for it.
Officer Buckholtz: I didn’t criticize anything. I said that would probably be a good idea because had you gotten out of the car you probably would have been shot is what I said. And it’s a suggestion. That’s what I said. It’s a suggestion. If you don’t want to that’s completely your perogative. Its simply a suggestion.
Driver: Officer Buckholtz?
Officer Buckholtz: Yes, sir.
Driver: You didn’t suggest it.
Officer Buckholtz: OK, well that’s how I [unintelligible] a suggestion
Driver: Your, your, your tone of voice indicated that you were clearly criticizing me for not notifying you.
Officer Buckholtz: It wasn’t a criticize. It was…well that wasn’t my intention, sir. It was merely a, um, suggestion that you, that would probably be a good idea for you to notify a law enforcement officer if there is a weapon in the vehicle.
Driver: I disagree, sir. I have…
Officer Buckholtz: That’s your perogative to disagree.
Driver: I have a CHP. I passed a backround check to get that. So why is a police officer worried about a citizen who’s passed a backround check?
Officer Buckholtz: Who is carrying a gun?
Driver: Yes, sir.
Officer Buckholtz: OK.
Driver: Why is a officer worried about…
Officer Buckholtz: Put yourself in my position.
Driver: …with a citizen who has…
Officer Buckholtz: Well, just put yourself in my position.
Driver: OK.
Officer Buckholtz: OK. You’re an officer back here…
Driver: Right.
Officer Buckholtz: You don’t know that, that I have a gun.
Driver: Well, wait a minute. Police…
[Both try to talk at same time.]
Officer Buckholtz: You wanted to play the role.
Driver: Alright.
Officer Buckholtz: You don’t, you don’t know that I have a gun. OK? You’re sitting there…
[Both try to talk at same time.]
Driver: You as a police officer…
Officer Buckholtz: …comes up and says he’s potentially got a gun. And you start stepping out of your car. What do I do?
Driver: Whoa, whoa, whoa. I can see your soft body armor.
Officer Buckholtz: Right.
Driver: You assume you are going to meet people who are armed.
Officer Buckholtz: Correct.
Driver: Alright. And do you…
Officer Buckholtz: I don’t expect to get shot at, though.
Driver: Do you, do your, do your protocols not require you to approach my car right where you’re standing.
Officer Buckholtz: Negative. I can approach you where my partner’s at over here.
Driver: Who’s behind the window and the line of fire where if I have a firearm and intend to…
Officer Buckholtz: Now you’re getting into tactics.
Driver: But that’s, that’s where your tactics are.
Officer Buckholtz: Well, what if you’re left handed?
Driver: Oh, yeah. By the time [motion with empty left hand out window, making a "pistol" with fingers to show difficulty for left-hander to take officer under fire] here…
Officer Buckholtz: You know. [Unintelligle—both talking]…find out already?
Driver: So, if I….
Officer Buckholtz: What if you have it in between the seats?
Driver: If I send a Freedom of Information Act request for your General Orders on how to perform traffic stops…
Officer Buckholtz: You don’t even have to. You can go down to the library and get it.
Driver: OK. And there will be nothing in there about you expecting and being ready for an armed encounter.
Officer Buckholtz: We’re always ready for an armed encounter.
Driver: Exactly.
Officer Buckholtz: Which is what I’m saying. Had you gotten out of that car. Now, knowing that you’re armed…
Driver: um hmm
Officer Buckholtz: …you probably would have been shot. That’s what I’m saying.
Driver: Well, thank you for announcing in advance that you would, uh, infringe on my 5[suP]th[/suP] Amendment rights. [deprived of life without due process of law]
Officer Buckholtz: And how is that?
Driver: You’re shooting at a citizen who is getting out of the car…
Officer Buckholtz: No, no, no. An armed subject.
Driver: …with no weapons in his hands. Aah, that's real good.
Officer Buckholtz: You were told to stay in your car.
Driver:: Yes. And you noticed that I observed that instruction very carefully, didn’t you?
Officer Buckholtz: Absolutely. Absolutely. I’m very, I’m very glad you did.
Driver: So, so, why the criticism?
Officer Buckholtz: It wasn’t a criticism? It was a suggestion, sir.
Driver: Well, that it wasn’t.
Officer Buckholtz: Well, you can perceive it any way you like. It was meant as a criticism. Or not, as uh, as a uh, you know…[I speak, and being closer to the recorder drown part of Buckholtz’s response]…meant as a criticism for it.
Driver: Officer Buckholtz. I think you, I don’t think we’re going to get anywhere with this conversation.
Officer Buckholtz: I d…, I agree. We probably won’t.
Driver: Am I free to go?
Officer Buckholtz: Yes, sir. You have been the whole time.
Driver: Well, that’s not for sure true. You told me to sit right here. And wait.
Officer Buckholtz: After, well what did, what did I tell you after your li..., after I gave your license back. [unintelligible]…go.
Driver: You did tell me to go. Yes. Very good.
Officer Buckholtz: You’ve been sitting here for ten minutes on your own.
Driver: Ha. Ha. Yeah, right.
Officer Buckholtz: OK? I thank you, sir.
Driver: Bye, bye. [end of encounter][/i]
(Joke, folks. Not a literal suggestion.)