G27
Regular Member
imported post
Good thing I got me a Sig Sauer... gotta love that decocking hammer.
Good thing I got me a Sig Sauer... gotta love that decocking hammer.
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first oc experience
- Thread starter Johnboy
- Start date
John Hardin
Regular Member
imported post
Make sure you use it. Decocking by pulling the trigger with your thumb on the hammer can give you essentially a 1911 in condition 2.
I don't remember exactly where I saw it, but I think it was one of Ayoob's articles in Guns and Ammo... a LEO had decocked on a live round that way, and was carrying the pistol holstered on a stack of books. It slipped off, landed on the hammer, and discharged - up through his head. Not good.
Make sure you use it. Decocking by pulling the trigger with your thumb on the hammer can give you essentially a 1911 in condition 2.I don't remember exactly where I saw it, but I think it was one of Ayoob's articles in Guns and Ammo... a LEO had decocked on a live round that way, and was carrying the pistol holstered on a stack of books. It slipped off, landed on the hammer, and discharged - up through his head. Not good.
Ajetpilot
Regular Member
imported post
My Kimber Pro TLE II, and I believe all other Kimber models, can NOT be carried in condition 2. They do not have a decocking lever. There is a hammer safety stop which is a notch on the hammer which prevents it from falling fully forward in the event of primary sear notch failure. From the manual:
My Kimber Pro TLE II, and I believe all other Kimber models, can NOT be carried in condition 2. They do not have a decocking lever. There is a hammer safety stop which is a notch on the hammer which prevents it from falling fully forward in the event of primary sear notch failure. From the manual:
amlevin
Regular Member
imported post
Wow! All these names for different carry modes. I always thought "mexican carry" was a gun just tucked in the front of your waistband. Now Israeli Carry. If a gun in the waistband at the front of your pants is a Mexican Carry would one carried on the opposite side be a "Canadian Carry:lol:
Wow! All these names for different carry modes. I always thought "mexican carry" was a gun just tucked in the front of your waistband. Now Israeli Carry. If a gun in the waistband at the front of your pants is a Mexican Carry would one carried on the opposite side be a "Canadian Carry:lol:
John Hardin
Regular Member
imported post
amlevin wrote:
amlevin wrote:
Maybe, if Canadians were allowed to have pistols...
just_a_car
Regular Member
imported post
amlevin wrote:
Might also help that I'm half-Canadian by birth; mom was born in Halifax, NS and is now a naturalized American.
Canadian Carry... I like it. Great for CC.
amlevin wrote:
Maybe so, amlevin.... That's how I carried my G27 for the longest time: Small-of-the-back, Right-Hand-palm-IN draw, full mag and no round in chamber (so, condition 3 for a GLOCK).
Might also help that I'm half-Canadian by birth; mom was born in Halifax, NS and is now a naturalized American.
Canadian Carry... I like it. Great for CC.
Johnboy
Regular Member
imported post
BluesBear wrote:
glad to hear there is someone else in my area. ive yet to try fred meyers, but will soon. i myslef dont look that old. at the most ive been told i looked 25 and the youngest was 15. depends on wheter ive shaved recently or not. i figure that since its a fairly small town that not too many people will give me guff about it. so far all ive recieved was respect.
BluesBear wrote:
glad to hear there is someone else in my area. ive yet to try fred meyers, but will soon. i myslef dont look that old. at the most ive been told i looked 25 and the youngest was 15. depends on wheter ive shaved recently or not. i figure that since its a fairly small town that not too many people will give me guff about it. so far all ive recieved was respect.
Bill45
Regular Member
imported post
John Hardin wrote:
Springfield Armory 1911's are like original Colts, no trigger saftey, so carry in condition 1 or no round in chamber.
I carry in condition one all the time have never had a accident and it has been 30 years. But if a person deciedes to go cocked and locked then PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE drawing and firing, unloading and lowering a hammer on a loaded chamber safely. Ya gotta get the manual dexterity downuntill you can do it in your sleep.
Jeff Cooper often mentioned that the single action pistol should only be carried by a person who wants to put in the effort to be a pro in handling it.
Bill
John Hardin wrote:
Colt 1911's made after 1980 have a trigger saftey. The firing pin will not move forward unless the trigger is pulled. Thus reducing the chance of an accidental discharge if the weapon is dropped on the hammer.
Springfield Armory 1911's are like original Colts, no trigger saftey, so carry in condition 1 or no round in chamber.
I carry in condition one all the time have never had a accident and it has been 30 years. But if a person deciedes to go cocked and locked then PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE drawing and firing, unloading and lowering a hammer on a loaded chamber safely. Ya gotta get the manual dexterity downuntill you can do it in your sleep.
Jeff Cooper often mentioned that the single action pistol should only be carried by a person who wants to put in the effort to be a pro in handling it.
Bill
Mainsail
Regular Member
imported post
Bill45 wrote:
Bill45 wrote:
Why would you ever need to lower the hammer on a live round?
Bill45
Regular Member
imported post
Mainsail wrote:
Mainsail wrote:
Actually there is no good reason, but in my case I keep the gun in condition 2 when I have it off and sitting on the table at home. In that case I lower the hammer, actually not on the firing pin but down to the "saftey" notch. I don't know why I do that but I got into the habit years ago when my girl friend did not like the gun sitting around cocked. So I compromised.
BluesBear
Regular Member
imported post
Years ago I was hired by a police department to do extensive research on this and I am not going to get into this on this forum since there are plenty of other forums for this discussion... but... It is IMPOSSIBLE to make a 1911 pattern pistol fire by dropping the gun on the hammer or striking the hammer when it is at rest. The ONLY way you can make it fire is to dropit directly on the muzzle* and then only if the gun is not fitted with a firing pin block ala the Series 80 Colt. And I do mean IMPOSSIBLE. Can't be done. No one has ever been able to do it. And believe me I have seriously tried.
And Bill ONLY the Series 80 and Series 90 Colts have a firing pin block. Colt still makes a lot of pistols that do not have the block.
The "safety" notch is NOT safe.If you strike the hammer or drop the gun with the hammer in the "safety" notch you can break the notch and or searand have the gun fire. And even if the gun doesn't fireyou will royally screw up your sear, thereby ruining your nice trigger pull. The gun is much safet with the hammer fully down than it is in the safety notch. The ONLY purpose of the safety notch is to prevent the gun fromfiring if the hammer follows when the slide goes into battery.
Of course a Kimber can be carried in Condition Two. ANY 1911 pattern pistol can. You must remember Cooper's Conditions of Readiness were devised to describe ONLY the 1911 pattern pistol. The fact that they can be loosely applied to other guns is irrelevant.
When my any of my Colts are not on my body or in a holster blocking the hammer, the hammer is down. And I still often carry in Condition Two. But then my guns are fitted with the old style wide spur hammer.I've been practicing cocking and decocking 1911s for over 30 years now and have NEVER had a slip. The currently popular oval hole "combat" hammer is not condusive to thumb cocking or decocking and I couldn't even consider carrying in Condition Two with either a combat or a rowell hammer. In my opinion only a long spur hammer is safe for Condition Two use.
For the record Cooper's Conditions are as follows.
Condition Three = Empty Chamber- Hammer down(This is also referred to as Israeli Carry even though the US Military taught this method of carryafter WWI until the adoption of the M9)
Condition Two = Loaded Chamber - Hammer down.
Condition One = Loaded Chamber - Hammer cocked with manual safety engaged.
*Or subject it to an extremely severe blow on the muzzle.
Years ago I was hired by a police department to do extensive research on this and I am not going to get into this on this forum since there are plenty of other forums for this discussion... but... It is IMPOSSIBLE to make a 1911 pattern pistol fire by dropping the gun on the hammer or striking the hammer when it is at rest. The ONLY way you can make it fire is to dropit directly on the muzzle* and then only if the gun is not fitted with a firing pin block ala the Series 80 Colt. And I do mean IMPOSSIBLE. Can't be done. No one has ever been able to do it. And believe me I have seriously tried.
And Bill ONLY the Series 80 and Series 90 Colts have a firing pin block. Colt still makes a lot of pistols that do not have the block.
The "safety" notch is NOT safe.If you strike the hammer or drop the gun with the hammer in the "safety" notch you can break the notch and or searand have the gun fire. And even if the gun doesn't fireyou will royally screw up your sear, thereby ruining your nice trigger pull. The gun is much safet with the hammer fully down than it is in the safety notch. The ONLY purpose of the safety notch is to prevent the gun fromfiring if the hammer follows when the slide goes into battery.
Of course a Kimber can be carried in Condition Two. ANY 1911 pattern pistol can. You must remember Cooper's Conditions of Readiness were devised to describe ONLY the 1911 pattern pistol. The fact that they can be loosely applied to other guns is irrelevant.
When my any of my Colts are not on my body or in a holster blocking the hammer, the hammer is down. And I still often carry in Condition Two. But then my guns are fitted with the old style wide spur hammer.I've been practicing cocking and decocking 1911s for over 30 years now and have NEVER had a slip. The currently popular oval hole "combat" hammer is not condusive to thumb cocking or decocking and I couldn't even consider carrying in Condition Two with either a combat or a rowell hammer. In my opinion only a long spur hammer is safe for Condition Two use.
For the record Cooper's Conditions are as follows.
Condition Three = Empty Chamber- Hammer down(This is also referred to as Israeli Carry even though the US Military taught this method of carryafter WWI until the adoption of the M9)
Condition Two = Loaded Chamber - Hammer down.
Condition One = Loaded Chamber - Hammer cocked with manual safety engaged.
*Or subject it to an extremely severe blow on the muzzle.
gregma
Regular Member
imported post
cut_cutta wrote:
1. Someone calls 911 and reports "man with a gun".
2. ignorant 911 operator asks no questions, just puts out a call "man with a gun".
3. ignorant LEO's show up guns drawn, performs a felony armed stop, handcuffs you, throws you in the back of the car for a couple of hours.
4. you get arrested and booked for a violation of 9.41.270 "Causing alarm".
5. you spend the weekend in jail because you can't raise the bail.
6. you get an ignorant court appointed lawyer and barely get the charges dismissed.
We can't go painting a rosy picture of the state of anti-gunners in WA state, especially on the liberal side of the mountains. We have to be prepared to accept the consequences of exercising an unpopular right, even to fellow gun carriers.
All need to participate with both eyes wide open and aware of the risks that each of us face every day. 95% of the time everything will go smoothly, but we can not lose sight of the other 5% we have to deal with.
Please help our growing organization: http://www.nwcdl.org
cut_cutta wrote:
Actually, the *worse* that can happen is:
1. Someone calls 911 and reports "man with a gun".
2. ignorant 911 operator asks no questions, just puts out a call "man with a gun".
3. ignorant LEO's show up guns drawn, performs a felony armed stop, handcuffs you, throws you in the back of the car for a couple of hours.
4. you get arrested and booked for a violation of 9.41.270 "Causing alarm".
5. you spend the weekend in jail because you can't raise the bail.
6. you get an ignorant court appointed lawyer and barely get the charges dismissed.
We can't go painting a rosy picture of the state of anti-gunners in WA state, especially on the liberal side of the mountains. We have to be prepared to accept the consequences of exercising an unpopular right, even to fellow gun carriers.
All need to participate with both eyes wide open and aware of the risks that each of us face every day. 95% of the time everything will go smoothly, but we can not lose sight of the other 5% we have to deal with.
Please help our growing organization: http://www.nwcdl.org
gregma
Regular Member
imported post
G27 wrote:
Please help our growing organization: http://www.nwcdl.org
G27 wrote:
I also love the decocking lever on my Beretta 92!Good thing I got me a Sig Sauer... gotta love that decocking hammer.
Please help our growing organization: http://www.nwcdl.org
BluesBear
Regular Member
imported post
Sauer first used a decocking lever in 1938. And their's is a true decocking lever not just a hammer drop since it slowly/gently lowers the hammer. As did the ill fated Colt Double Eagle. WhereasBeretta, Taurus, Walther and S&W guns simply DROP the hammer using the full force of the mainspring.
I really wish they would produce an improved 38H in .380similar in size to the 230 or Walther PP series I'd be the first in line to get one. I really liked that design where the decocking lever also is a cocking lever controloing a completely concealed hammer. Brilliant design. The only drawback is that it's a little thick/chunkyfor today's standards.
Sauer first used a decocking lever in 1938. And their's is a true decocking lever not just a hammer drop since it slowly/gently lowers the hammer. As did the ill fated Colt Double Eagle. WhereasBeretta, Taurus, Walther and S&W guns simply DROP the hammer using the full force of the mainspring.
I really wish they would produce an improved 38H in .380similar in size to the 230 or Walther PP series I'd be the first in line to get one. I really liked that design where the decocking lever also is a cocking lever controloing a completely concealed hammer. Brilliant design. The only drawback is that it's a little thick/chunkyfor today's standards.