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Thread: Why Open Carry

  1. #1
    Regular Member LaVere's Avatar
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    In Michigan and I presume other states as well. Our State Constitution Allows for the right of gun ownership. One only needs a permit to conceal the gun. (Conseal it on your person.)
    Obvoiusly there are person that can not carry no matter what. ie criminals and there are locations that citizens can not carry, but we are not talking about that.

    There are times that I do open carry (OC)
    1. I want my shirt tucked in.
    2. I just don't want it in my pocket for what ever reason.
    3. I'm wearing a suit coat over the gun and I get in the car and take it off.
    remembered something, hop out car do my thing go back to the car get in.
    Usually getting gas.
    4. Anyway you get the idea.

    There are extra conserns for me in open carry. But the main consern for me is. Snach and grab I don't ever let anyone behind me closer the say 10 feet. I choose to sit in public with my gun away from the public. Next to the wall.

    I just feel, my gun my choice and what ever works for me that present time and location.



    The use of force is a last resort. One aspect of violence is that it is unpredictable. Although your initial intention may be to use limited force, once you have engaged in violence the consequences are unpredictable. Violence always brings about unexpected results and almost always provokes retaliation.

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    First of all, do yourself a favor and don't say hide. Hide is a word used by anti's to suggest that everybody concealing a firearm has ulterior motives that are criminal. Let's not assist them by engaging in the same abuse of the language.

    Secondly, snatch and grab is entirely up to you. Don't want it to happen, be aware. A criminal will not even approach you unless you show him beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're asleep at the wheel as it were. Feel free to consult the existing thread about the myth of snatch and grab.

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    Do whatever you are comfortable with.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    It's up to each person to do what they feel is right. I personally prefer open carry for several reasons, not the least of which is public education. However, I would like to address your fear of a "snatch" taking place. Have you ever tried to remove a gun from someone else's holster? Have you ever had someone try to remove your gun from your holster? Give it a shot some time and see if you still think someone could do it. You might be surprised at how difficult it is, even without a retention device, and even without the wearer fighting off the potential gun-snatcher.

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    Regular Member LaVere's Avatar
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    Thank you all for your nice replies. I did change hide to conceal. But I still think hide is a good word. Maybe it is just my Midwest small town english.

    Thank

    Gordon

    Etymology: Middle English hiden, from Old English hydan; akin to Greek keuthein to conceal
    transitive verb
    1 a : to put out of sight : SECRETE b : to conceal for shelter or protection : SHIELD
    2 : to keep secret <hide the truth>
    3 : to screen from or as if from view : OBSCURE
    4 : to turn (the eyes or face) away in shame or anger
    intransitive verb
    1 : to remain out of sight -- often used with out
    2 : to seek protection or evade responsibility


    To snatch and grab I would not think it is easy. It is that I'm getting older and slower and may need more time to react. I just would not want to place temptation in front
    anyone.

    The use of force is a last resort. One aspect of violence is that it is unpredictable. Although your initial intention may be to use limited force, once you have engaged in violence the consequences are unpredictable. Violence always brings about unexpected results and almost always provokes retaliation.

    Dalai Lama

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    http://www.generalnewsgroup.com/

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    Pardon me, but a word's denotation and connotation are different. No dictionary will tell you how a word is used. Least of all, how a word is ABUSED in an attempt to smear the images of law-abiding citizens as if they are criminal solely for engaging in activity the person using the word wouldn't. Look up the correlation of hidden and weapons in the media and you will often find op-eds that are speaking out against the concealed carry laws.

    Also, the average criminal is a coward. Seeing a gun on the would be victim sends them looking for a softer target. There is nothing tempting about potential death or bodily harm. Criminals weigh risk:yield and when the risk is "just" going to jail when you can tell who the police are by their clothing, they don't mind that. When you up the ante to being stopped is right here and it might be more than just jail, the risk is no longer worth it. Snatch and grab is a hypothectical set up my die hard concealers in an attempt to disenfranchise their open carry brethren. Those who open carry know better. I say again: Be demonstrably aware of your surroundings and nobody will be stupid enough to give you a reason to pull the gun on them.

    And if you don't mind a little added advice, one should never ask a question they're not prepared to hear the answer to :P

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    If you are really worried about having your gun snatched, you might want to research how many attempts are made, and how many are successful. You hear a lot of "oh no, they gonna grab my gun", but the fact is it really doesn't happen. Having said that, just carry however you are most comfortable, and I will continue doing so as well.

    And if you don't mind a little added advice, one should never ask a question they're not prepared to hear the answer to :P
    Sammy L. said it a little better:

    "I my answers frighten you, you should cease asking scary questions."

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    Hi,



    I am new to this site, I am waiting for my TN carry permit. I have to option of open vs concealed...now I know this topic is all ofver the place andpeople have their opinions...but, I am on the fence...I think open is good cause its a deterrant, and it is easier to get there when needed...but I also like the element of suprise factor of concealed...



    can someone give me some serious reasons why you all choose open carry vs concealed?

    also, if open carry is my choice, do you all carry the badges? I just dont know about public reaction, and I dont want to attract unnecessary judgment to me or my family when I am with them...



    thoughts?



    Thanks,

    JJ

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    I openly carry, for the most part, because I should not have to conceal my firearm. I want to not only flex my Second Amendment rights, but I want to show my friends, neighbors, and the people in my neighborhood that normal, everyday people can safely and responsibly carry weapons. Guns seem to have a stigma that only "bad guys" and cops ever have them. I believe it's the responsibility of good citizens like ourselves to show that normal people have guns too. We're not out to intimidate anyone, and our firearms are not ego boosters. We simply want to protect ourselves and our families, and there's nothing to be ashamed of about that. If there's nothing to be ashamed of, why try to hide it?

    The deterrant effect, the additional comfort, the quicker access, etc. are just gravy.

    My $0.02.

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    canynracer wrote:
    also, if open carry is my choice, do you all carry the badges? (snip)
    What do you mean, badges? I've never heard of this unless you mean the cheesy concealed carry permit holder badges that could get you arrested for impersonating an officer.

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    canynracer wrote:
    I think open is good cause its a deterrant, and it is easier to get there when needed...but I also like the element of suprise factor of concealed...
    Having been in self-defense situations, and knowing the adrenaline dump, I can easily say that I'd rather a criminal see I'm armed and go the other way than to be attacked and be able to later boast that I survived.

    OC-Glock19 wrote:
    What do you mean, badges? I've never heard of this unless you mean the cheesy concealed carry permit holder badges that could get you arrested for impersonating an officer.
    If the badge doesn't say the name of a police force and you yourself do not say you are a policeman, you can not be arrested for impersonating police for having a badge.


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    Demarest wrote:
    OC-Glock19 wrote:
    What do you mean, badges? I've never heard of this unless you mean the cheesy concealed carry permit holder badges that could get you arrested for impersonating an officer.
    If the badge doesn't say the name of a police force and you yourself do not say you are a policeman, you can not be arrested for impersonating police for having a badge.
    I snipped this from another gun forum on this subject. I think this is what I was (very poorly) trying to get across.

    "Actual CCW Badges are more of a Novelty item and you must be carefull that you do not represent yourself as an Officer of the Law or a Federal Agent. If you wear a badge or permit openly... your permit to carry concealled is void which can be a problem if your State does not allow open carry..."

    "...Not sure why you would want to risk being shot by an Officer or Agent with one of these Fake Badges though unless your trying to impress your girlfriend or buddies?"

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    Demarest wrote:
    canynracer wrote:
    I think open is good cause its a deterrant, and it is easier to get there when needed...but I also like the element of suprise factor of concealed...
    Having been in self-defense situations, and knowing the adrenaline dump, I can easily say that I'd rather a criminal see I'm armed and go the other way than to be attacked and be able to later boast that I survived.

    OC-Glock19 wrote:
    What do you mean, badges? I've never heard of this unless you mean the cheesy concealed carry permit holder badges that could get you arrested for impersonating an officer.
    If the badge doesn't say the name of a police force and you yourself do not say you are a policeman, you can not be arrested for impersonating police for having a badge.
    Here's my opinion on badges/IDs...

    Without a doubt, the public is trusting of someone who is wearing a badge or ID. The ID could be something as simple as your employee ID that has your picture and name and place of employment. People trust you more if you don't have anything to hide. It's almost equivalent to wearing business casual or business professional attire while carrying. People will not question you because you look trustworthy.

    Having said that, you don't want to misrepresent yourself. Wearing a CCW ID while carrying openly will probably have people question you 20% less because they think you have some type of authority. That's good if you don't like to be bothered, and it's good if you're in a hurry. It's not good for educating the public.

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    OC-Glock19 wrote:
    Demarest wrote:
    OC-Glock19 wrote:
    What do you mean, badges? I've never heard of this unless you mean the cheesy concealed carry permit holder badges that could get you arrested for impersonating an officer.
    If the badge doesn't say the name of a police force and you yourself do not say you are a policeman, you can not be arrested for impersonating police for having a badge.
    I snipped this from another gun forum on this subject. I think this is what I was (very poorly) trying to get across.

    "Actual CCW Badges are more of a Novelty item and you must be carefull that you do not represent yourself as an Officer of the Law or a Federal Agent. If you wear a badge or permit openly... your permit to carry concealled is void which can be a problem if your State does not allow open carry..."

    "...Not sure why you would want to risk being shot by an Officer or Agent with one of these Fake Badges though unless your trying to impress your girlfriend or buddies?"
    This makes absolutely no sense.

    Wearing a badge that doesn't say you're a Federal government employee or doesn't say you're with soandso police department wouldn't constitute impersonation.

    Not sure about the fact that wearing the badge openly implies the concealment is void. That's probably state dependent. And there's no reason to wear a badge to make the public more trusting if you're CC'ing.

    And I can guarentee to you with 99% assurance that wearing an ID/badge will prevent you from being shot by an officer more often than cause you to get shot.

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    nickerj1 wrote:
    It's not good for educating the public.
    I agree. I'm not advocating the badges. I just think its ignorant the way many of us will attack them. Particularly with the uneducated "impersonating" schtick.

    Educating the public is why I open carry over concealed. I DO have extra clearances, but I always answer the usual "privileged class" line of questioning by denying all of it and telling them I'm an American citizen just like them. I want to educate the public of their rights and I want to help diffuse the incorrect privileged class style of thinking.

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    Thanks for your input guys...I was reading about the badges, but I am thinking more for the public (people seem to be calmer when there is an ID near a gun) I looked at the fact that they are novelty and you can customize one to say whatever you want.

    I am also considering getting one made that looks nothing like a badge on any LEO I have seen here. I dont want unnessecary attention when I am out with my kids, I think having SOMETHING in the form of ID seems to put people more at ease, even if they dont actually READ the badge.

    But I also have the conceal option here in TN. either one is legal, and I am sure I will do a bit of both depending on where I am. but I would like to get some thoughts from both the concealers and the open carriers and their experiences.

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    canynracer wrote:
    Thanks for your input guys...I was reading about the badges, but I am thinking more for the public. . . I think having SOMETHING in the form of ID seems to put people more at ease,
    This defeats the object of educating the public that average joes can OC at will in our country. Wearing even a fake indecia of authority reinforces the common opinion that one must have the government's permission to carry a gun in public.

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    Mike wrote:
    canynracer wrote:
    Thanks for your input guys...I was reading about the badges, but I am thinking more for the public. . . I think having SOMETHING in the form of ID seems to put people more at ease,
    This defeats the object of educating the public that average joes can OC at will in our country. Wearing even a fake indecia of authority reinforces the common opinion that one must have the government's permission to carry a gun in public.
    ummm...OK, will you explain "educating the public" are you saying that I should explain to everyone that scowells or gets nervous...that I have a right to carry openly and get into a debate in front of my family?



    and the intention of the badge has nothing to do with authority, in fact, it doesnt have to be a "badge" at all, it could be displaying my permit somehow....but I am really interested in hearing more about the last part of your post...unless I am mistaken, we DO need the governments permission...having to obtain a permit in the first place proves that...doesnt it?

    but most important, I did not want to find out about the badge...I was trying to get some reasoning behind open vs. concealed so I can make an informed, educated choice when I finally DO get my new permit in the mail.

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    canynracer wrote:
    I am really interested in hearing more about the last part of your post...unless I am mistaken, we DO need the governments permission...having to obtain a permit in the first place proves that...doesnt it?
    In most states, no permit is required to open carry a handgun in public.

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    Mike wrote:
    canynracer wrote:
    I am really interested in hearing more about the last part of your post...unless I am mistaken, we DO need the governments permission...having to obtain a permit in the first place proves that...doesnt it?
    In most states, no permit is required to open carry a handgun in public.
    I must be reading the map wrong..I only see 10 states that allow without a permit..either way, is that the only reason you open carry? I have a Sigma.. like I said, TN lets me do either, but I am thinking it will be hard to conceal..but I dont want to freak the public out or get into a debate when I am with my family... I want to weigh the pros and cons on both sides...

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    canynracer wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    In most states, no permit is required to open carry a handgun in public.
    I must be reading the map wrong..I only see 10 states that allow without a permit
    All states save the green and red states do not require a permit to open carry.

    That's the way it should be - open carry is the pure right; the requirement to have a permit to conceal is reasonable regulation of that right.

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    Mike wrote:
    That's the way it should be - open carry is the pure right; the requirement to have a permit to conceal is reasonable regulation of that right.
    I have to disagree with Mike. I feel that NO regulation of a right is reasonable. the limit of a right is when it infringes on another persons right.



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    oops... sorry

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    I also disagree with Mike. Especially considering the US Constitution says "shall not be infringed."

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    Mike wrote:
    canynracer wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    In most states, no permit is required to open carry a handgun in public.
    I must be reading the map wrong..I only see 10 states that allow without a permit
    All states save the green and red states do not require a permit to open carry.

    That's the way it should be - open carry is the pure right; the requirement to have a permit to conceal is reasonable regulation of that right.

    All states, "save the green and red states"...ok, I am lost again....are you saying the green and red allow open carry?


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