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Thread: Bellevue...

  1. #1
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    I have a story to tell but I would like to hear what others have run into...

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    Dont tease!

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    Ok...I'm wordy when it comes to stories so here are the notes...

    Go to Tiffanys to get Wife a gift, walk past two cops(no word), lost-walk into red robin to use the bathroom and ask for directions, walk to mall and search for no firearms sign(none), walk thru mall and buy gift(no word from anyone or security), leave mall and here is cop number 3...

    LT McCraken(sp)...my answers in caps(not yelling)

    He asks me why am I carrying a gun in public, BECAUSE ITS LEGAL, he asks again, BECAUSE ITS LEGAL, you are scaring everyone around here, WHO AM I SCARING, Bellevue is a nice place and they dont need anyone walking around with a gun out in the open scaring everyone, WHO AM I SCARING, do you have a cpl, YES, then you need to cover it up-that is what its for, WHY-THIS IS LEGAL, may i see your cpl, YES-HANDED TO HIM, so-you are in the military-is this what they teach you to do, WHAT DOES THE MILITARY HAVE TO DO WITH THIS, its ok for you to where whatever you want on duty or in uniform but not out here, IS THAT YOUR PREFERENCE(no answer), if you have a cpl you need to cover it up, IS THAT YOUR PREFERENCE-IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING I HAVE TO DO, just do everyone a favor and cover it up so you dont scare anyone, SURE.

    I walked away to the crosswalk because my car was across the street. When I get across the street he yells(because it was still OC) "you just dont get it do you?" I replied "My car is right here". Then I asked for clarification on his name and called the Department. Tomorrow I will be speaking with his Supervisor, Capt Michael Johnson.

    I am glad that I can openly fight for the safety of this nation but not openly fight for my families and my own safety. It was hard to stay polite when he(and how) he made the comment about the Military. I am also glad to know that Bellevue PD and Bellevue is reserved for those in the Ivory Tower and anyone who owns/carries a gun are evil bad men...I know this wasn't very articulate but I really didnt want to write a novel.



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    Sick 'em Lonnie!

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    Bellevue has already issued a training bulletin--probably the most well written training bulletin yet issued by any agency!

    Obviously he knew it was lega or he would have detained you. Personally I have no problem with him asking a question. According to you he added the line about doing people a favor. That is him making a request. Couple that together with your answer "because it is legal" without any further explanation and I can understand his terseness back.

    If we want the police to respect our right we really have got to realize, as a group, that the police will naturally and (rightfully) should be weary of people walking around with a gun... it is not normal. They are trained to question anything that looks abnormal whether it is becuase you are wearing a foil hat, carrying a gun or wearing a trenchcoat in the middle of summer. All are perfectly legal, but all should raise some suspicion.

    As long as the officer is aware of the law, treats you with respect and doesn't make false statements, illegally detain you or threaten you then I really can't see any problem with him questioning you. (BTW, this is not to say you have to answer, this is not giving up your rights... he did not require you to answer, and you were not required to do so in any way...)

    The fact that you weren't detained, illegally searched, etc. speaks to the fact that the training bulletin Lonnie got them to put out worked.

    (Would we really want to live in a society where the police are not allowed/permitted to question abnormal behavior? There are plenty of legal things I would like to police to keep a close watch on... just think about 3rd and Pine... would you rather the cops ignore large groups of people srangely gathered... think about the pervert sitting in the car at the park... totally legal to sit there, but, why is an old guy sitting in a car at a children's playground... Personally, question away, observe, etc... keep us all safe...just respect our rights... which I think this officer did)

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    I have no problem being stopped, at all. Checks and balances are what is needed in everything. I have a problem with what he said and how he said it. That's all.

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    I guess without being there and seeing his tone, etc. that I just don't see a particular problem with the wording he used...

    I am guessing he was being derogatory/accusatory and that is the problem?

    Keep in mind that officers are trained to be intimidating and to have a strong presence... that is how they are taught to control situations and to establish authority... but doing so politely is certainly a required part of the job... at least when dealing with someone who is not breaking the law...

    Maybe mentioning this to his superior officer is warranted... I wasn't there... I don't know... but I really don't think this is anywhere close to warranting a formal complaint (I don't think that was your intention anyway)...



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    By no means do I want to file a formal complaint and that is the first thing I told them when I called. I have dealt with hundreds of cops on numerous issues and know what you are referring to.

    With his tone and comments it was as if he was labeling me a BG by having a gun in his "Holy Land" of Bellevue. His repeated "you are scaring everyone!" comments werent exactly great either. THEN, his tone and comments about what I do in the military and off duty...this was NOT the experience I was expecting from a LT on the Force.


    Going to dinner, I will continue when I return.

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    I'll have to share with you guys the Bellevue bulletin.

    Btw, I'm sending an email to the writer of that bulletin tonight. The LT is going to have some explaining to do....

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    Sounds good to me...

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    Regular Member GreatWhiteLlama's Avatar
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    I notice that the officer made a point to avoid the key word of "alarmed".

    Granted "scaring" could be construed as the same thing but since the law explicitly states "alarmed" I'm going to have to assume that he made a special point to not use it.

    I think this should be chalked up as definite progress.
    "...our media are palace eunuchs gazing avidly at the harem of power and stroking their impotent pens in time to the rape of our liberties."
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    I notice the officer offered no proof of anyone actually being scared by your actions.

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    Nope, he couldn't provide proof at all. I will be up that way later, shooting with my buddy. That is when I will give them a call again.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    I've re-read it three times.

    USN, can you PM me your RL name please? I am in the process of emailing the writer of the Bellevue bulletin.

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Email sent:

    I wanted to inform you of a problem. Since the training advisory to the corporals quite a few months ago, I assumed that everyone knew it was legal to open carry within the department and generally would not give people attitude over it. Unfortunately there's been an incident. No arrests or anything, just a lot of bad attitude and bad information. This occurred outside of Bellevue Square a few days ago.

    Below is a memorializing of the incident by the person involved. Everything in caps is NOT the person yelling.

    Lt. Mcracken: Why are you carrying a gun in public?
    Citizen:, BECAUSE ITS LEGAL,
    Lt. McCracken: (Repeating himself) Why are you carrying a gun in public?
    Citizen: BECAUSE ITS LEGAL,
    Lt. McCracken: You are scaring everyone around here,
    Citizen: WHO AM I SCARING,
    Lt. McCracken: Bellevue is a nice place and they dont need anyone walking around with a gun out in the open scaring everyone,
    Citizen: WHO AM I SCARING,
    Lt. McCracken: do you have a cpl,
    Citizen: YES,
    Lt. McCracken: then you need to cover it up-that is what its for,
    Citizen: WHY-THIS IS LEGAL
    Lt. McCracken: may i see your cpl,
    Citzen: YES. *hands it to the Lt.
    Lt. McCracken: So-you are in the military-is this what they teach you to do,
    Citizen: WHAT DOES THE MILITARY HAVE TO DO WITH THIS,
    Lt. Cracken: its ok for you to where whatever you want on duty or in uniform but not out here,
    Citizen: IS THAT YOUR PREFERENCE(no answer),
    Lt. McCracken: if you have a cpl you need to cover it up,
    Citizen: IS THAT YOUR PREFERENCE-IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING I HAVE TO DO,
    Lt. McCracken: just do everyone a favor and cover it up so you dont scare anyone, SURE.
    Citizen: *I walked away to the crosswalk because my car was across the street*. When I get across the street he yells(because it was still OC)
    Lt. McCracken: "you just dont get it do you?"
    Citizen: I replied "My car is right here".

    There is tremendous things wrong with this entire incident.

    First is. Lt. McCracken's demand for a concealed pistol license. As you are very well aware, a CPL is not required to open carry a handgun in a holster, and the lack of CPL cannot be used to justify a stop of this nature.

    Second is Lt. McCracken's flagrant disregard for the actual legalities. Lt. McCracken is first a law enforcement officer. He enforces laws, not his opinions on what it should be. Not to mention the "scaring" part. He should keep his opinions to himself.

    Third is using the citizens status as being a member of the military. This is beyond disrespectful, and Lt. McCracken's tone that was used here was him talking down to him like he was a child.

    Fourth is that all Bellevue PD officers should refrain from treating people like this in this circumstance, not only because treating people like this is the wrong thing to do, but also due always the possibility of their statements being recorded.. There are some among open carriers who are carrying recorders in their possession due to incidents such as this. It is legal to do so statewide per 68 Wn. App. 802, 845 P.2d 1355, STATE v. FLORA, in which the appeals court stated: We decline the State's invitation to transform the privacy act into a sword available for use against individuals by public officers acting in their official capacity. The trial court erred in denying Flora's motion to dismiss. Flora's conviction is reversed and the case dismissed.

    I do hope that this will come to an amicable conclusion.

    Regards,

    Lonnie Wilson

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    So the next lunch is in Bellevue? I can do that.

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    USN_MA1 wrote:
    Go to Tiffanys to get Wife a gift, walk past two cops(no word), lost-walk into red robin to use the bathroom and ask for directions, walk to mall and search for no firearms sign(none), walk thru mall and buy gift(no word from anyone or security), leave mall and here is cop number 3...
    Just FYI. I believe this was Bel-Square mall, correct? We have had a member asked to leave that mall previously saying it was mall policy (hidden policy of course). It was quite a while ago, and I can't find that thread any longer.

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    Yes, same place. I spent quite some time looking all over the front of Macy's and read what little they did have. Nothing about firearms. On a side note, according to the sign, Chuck Norris is not allowed to shop there.

    Thanks for shooting the email Lonnie, I havent been very successful in reaching his Captain.

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    USN_MA1 wrote:
    Yes, same place. I spent quite some time looking all over the front of Macy's and read what little they did have. Nothing about firearms. On a side note, according to the sign, Chuck Norris is not allowed to shop there.

    Thanks for shooting the email Lonnie, I havent been very successful in reaching his Captain.
    Thought so.

    I was mistaken about the earlier episode. See this thread: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...mp;forum_id=55. About 1/4 way down.

    Although he was initially approached by mall security, it was never mentioned that it was against mall policy to carry. The place I was thinking about was in Seattle, and you had to ask for the policy at the information desk to find it out.

    And as to the side note. I'm not sure Chuck Norris would *WANT* to shop at Macy's.

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  20. #20
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    Hijacking my own thread....as the shopping at macy's may be true, he is not allowed in the mall...along with loud noises, leaning back in a chair or pretty much doing anything besides breathing quietly...

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