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Thread: More ammo for Norfolk's anti crusade?

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    Regular Member Kevin108's Avatar
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    When I clicked your link, I got a 404 error. Hopefully, the below URL will work better:

    source

    This type of incident certainly could be ammo against pro-rights groups, but I think it could be chalked up as a "suicidal nut with a gun" really. Sucidal people cannot be effectively stopped unless their condition is known beforehand. I'm sure there were pre-incident indicators that family and friends could have caught on to, but at that particular moment, there probably couldn't have been anything to prevent this from happening.

    Even if firearms were prohibited at the meeting and metal detectors were in use, I still don't think it would have stopped this man from committing suicide. It would have only stopped him from committing suicide in the presence of the city council.

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    Regular Member Kevin108's Avatar
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    Sorry the links are broken already!

    http://www.clarksvilleonline.com/200...n-zone-change/

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    This just shows you why people are scared of others with guns....

    You never know what that person is going to do.

    Lucky for all that he shot himself first and not some of the members on the board.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?"

    That is why we must have the means to defend ourselves not the reason to disarm us.
    I can see the knee jerk reactions coming already. Isn't against the law to commit suicide?

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?"

    That is why we must have the means to defend ourselves not the reason to disarm us.
    I can see the knee jerk reactions coming already. Isn't against the law to commit suicide?

    Yata hey
    This is true.... This is why the people need to be allowed to be armed.

    This is why I go armed almost everywhere. You do not know who is out there wanting to harm you.

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Isn't against the law to commit suicide?

    Yata hey
    You can only be charged with attempted suicide
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    Sounded like he was a pretty good guy according to what the people had to say about him, but some people see no other way out.

    Too bad he ended it like this, but I can also see why the board would not rezone for certain situations.



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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    roscoe13 wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    Isn't against the law to commit suicide?

    Yata hey
    You can only be charged with attempted suicide
    At least it's not a capital crime.............yet!

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    openryan wrote:
    Sounded like he was a pretty good guy according to what the people had to say about him, but some people see no other way out.

    Too bad he ended it like this, but I can also see why the board would not rezone for certain situations.

    All of the dearly departed are good guys to somebody. There is always another way though some are blinded by their internal problems and cannot see. The unfortunate truth is that no good comes from his selfish act - only pain and suffering to those he left behind.
    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    openryan wrote:
    Sounded like he was a pretty good guy according to what the people had to say about him, but some people see no other way out.

    Too bad he ended it like this, but I can also see why the board would not rezone for certain situations.

    All of the dearly departed are good guys to somebody. There is always another way though some are blinded by their internal problems and cannot see. The unfortunate truth is that no good comes from his selfish act - only pain and suffering to those he left behind.
    Yata hey
    I agree entirely, although I believe the point he was trying to make was for their sympathy, as I am sure he felt sorry for himself.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    openryan wrote:
    Sounded like he was a pretty good guy according to what the people had to say about him, but some people see no other way out.

    Too bad he ended it like this, but I can also see why the board would not rezone for certain situations.

    All of the dearly departed are good guys to somebody. There is always another way though some are blinded by their internal problems and cannot see. The unfortunate truth is that no good comes from his selfish act - only pain and suffering to those he left behind.
    Yata hey
    Agreed. And even more anti-gun publicity

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    openryan wrote:
    ...I can also see why the board would not rezone for certain situations.
    I think it's too bad that supposedly 'free' people have to ask permission from their government to use their property as they wish. So long as you're not violating another person's individual rights, there is no just reason to prevent it.
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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Anybody remember the video clip of a city councilman shooting himself in chambers?
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?"
    The Shadow knows!





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    I'm sure he got the sympathy vote for a day or so, but then life went on. I'm sure his family was more injured then anyone else.


    With the way property taxes are shooting up, government will end up taking people houses because of taxes. Especially older people who have a fixed cost of living. It wouldn't surprise me to see one of these people who'se fully paid house gets taken because of kelo or property taxes to go and take out the people responsible (council or whatever). In that case it will be interesting if the result is gun control within council area/metal dectors OR reform of property tax/right system, or both?

    I mean look at NJ. Some avg houses are 6000-10k a yr in property taxes. Thats 1k a month just for taxes!!! Not counting electricity, mortgage, insurance. Bound to be more people going crazy any day...

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Isn't against the law to commit suicide?

    Yata hey
    Yeah, that's why I don't do it. Chances of getting caught are pretty much 100%. You don't need that on your record.

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    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    openryan wrote:
    ...I can also see why the board would not rezone for certain situations.
    I think it's too bad that supposedly 'free' people have to ask permission from their government to use their property as they wish. So long as you're not violating another person's individual rights, there is no just reason to prevent it.
    +1

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    ama-gi wrote:
    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    openryan wrote:
    ...I can also see why the board would not rezone for certain situations.
    I think it's too bad that supposedly 'free' people have to ask permission from their government to use their property as they wish. So long as you're not violating another person's individual rights, there is no just reason to prevent it.
    +1
    Don't get me wrong here, I don't know all the facts surrounding the case and prior meetings they had. But...

    When you live in an incorporated area, people have decided on contigencies and codes, if you do not like them go live elsewhere, if the majority of the people living there in the first place did not agree with them, they wouldn't be in place.

    I can understand where this guy feels shafted, however, he should have checked into all of this before the remodel, and should have been fiscally responsible in doing so, I don't believe a barbershop has THAT MUCH overhead... especially if he was running it out of his home in the first place...

    It certainly is unfortunate that he made this mistake, but neither the county/locale or the public at large is responsible for his error.

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    openryan wrote:
    Don't get me wrong here, I don't know all the facts surrounding the case and prior meetings they had. But...

    When you live in an incorporated area, people have decided on contigencies and codes, if you do not like them go live elsewhere, if the majority of the people living there in the first place did not agree with them, they wouldn't be in place.
    With all due respect, that's complete bullsh***. This argument, "if you don't like it, live somewhere else" is ridiculous. A person's rights are god-given. Would you say that DC's gun ban is ok just because if you "choose to live in a big city, people have decided on restrictions..." Should we have said "love it or leave it" to the revolutionaries who founded this country? The people on the freedom rides through the deep south? The plaintiffs in the Parker v. Washington DC case?

    WHO CARES if the public voted for the rules...that doesn't mean jack squat. Rights are rights because a majority vote can't take them away. Ever. Democracy has NOTHING TO DO with rights...rights are inherent. To say that >50% of the population agreed to violatea person's rights doesn't make it any less of a violation and any less wrong. Democracy doesn't make right wrong. It doesn't make black white.

    A person's property is his. No person has the right to tell him what to do with it unless it's actively harming another's life, liberty or property (e.g., he's blowing pollution onto his neighbor's land). If YOU couldn't go onto a person's land and tell him what to do, what difference does it make if you gather up a few thousand other people to join you? It makes no moral difference...so stop hiding behind the ballot box...it changes nothing. Theft is theft. Murder is murder. Slavery is slavery.

    I wouldn't recommend his method of protest though...It's not particularly effective.

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