protector84
Regular Member
imported post
Hi, I'm new here so first I'll introduce myself. I live in Arizona where open carry is legal but bringing a firearm into or on the bar premises is illegal except in "emergency conditions." I just recently became a gun owner and own a semi-auto pistol and a pump-action shotgun. I regularly open carry where it is allowed or where there won't be too much objection. Also, I've been reading this forum for some time but just haven't gotten around to posting yet. Sorry, but this might be a bit long:
Anyway, I was at a bar in central Phoenix having a couple of drinks (three to be exact) and after some waters and becoming sober enough to drive home, I say bye to my friends and walk out of the bar. The second I step outside a man crashes right into me after being shoved by a second man. The next thing I know the man that just hit me was threatening the other man with a beer bottle while the man that pushed him was threatening him with a pocket knife but a big enough one to hurt or kill someone without much trouble. Then there are at least two more men to my right and another three to the left all screaming and cussing at one another. All of this is going on as the bar security who happens to be overweight and near 70 years old is inside reading the Arizona Republic newspaper.
Before I could even get to my car, one of the men jumped into his car and starts trying to run over several of the others who start playing a cat-and-mouse game of running up to the car and then jumping out of the way as the car tries to hit them again. So I go to my car, get out my Glock 19 pistol and strap it on to my hip. Without saying a word to any of them I move away about 30-50 feet from the trouble and stare at them with my hand on the gun ready to pullit out. Immediately, the other six men get in their cars and leave and the seventh in the assault vehicle does not circle back around and leaves. I picked up the knife that one of the criminals dropped before leaving. Naturally, this is when the bouncer comes out to the parking lot and only sees me with the gun on my hip and a knife in my hand.
Since I am a regular at this place, he didn't seem too upset after I explained the situation. Catch this, though. I go back to the place afterwards and the manager was furious at me. I thought I was going to get 86ed but instead was just chewed out. She says, "You don't be sportin' that gun 'round here or I'm callin' the cops next time. You shouldn't get involved in that crap. Next time, youjust go and get our security and we'll handle it. You put our liquor license in jeapordy by bringing that gun here." I asked them what I should do when someone tries to attack me and she says, "Our security is here to protect you. Don't be pullin' that gun o' yours."
My conclusions on this whole ordeal:
What I found most disturbing was not the fight but the way in which our society deals with defensive situations. People have the right to be secure in their persons. This wasn't a case of "getting involved" because I was involved automatically the second I was hit by the guy with the bottle. This is supposed to be the "land of the free" and not the "land of the scared." My opinion is that a civilized person who is adequately trained or equipped to deal with a problematic situation should do what they can to help. Unfortunately, we don't live in avery civilized society when corporate liability is more important than personal safety. I had a legal right according to Arizona law to get that gun and bring it on the property and I would have also been well within my rights to shoot the three that were threatening with weapons. It seems to me that the general gun-fearing liability-minded public has lost its logic. Instead of getting proper credit for potentially saving a lot of lives, you get scolded for doing the right thing. About her saying she would call the cops on me, seriously didn't the cops need to be called? If seven men are attacking each other, clearly the cops need to be called. Clearly, if a problem is out of control enough that I actually have to get my gun, then it probably means that the cops are needed. Stoooopid.
I assume most of the board members here (as with the rest of the law-abiding gun owners) see somewhat eye-to-eye (but please give me your input). If I had left the scene or gotten the security, chances are someone would have been hurt or killed. Every second the fight was escalating and ten seconds wasted could have easily resulted in someone getting run over and another person stabbed. But the bar manager's opinion is basically "Don't worry about it. We can always have a candle-light vigil" afterwards. Not to mention, had I have gotten the security do any of you think he would have wanted to get involved? I had pepperspray, a gun, and a police baton within access. The bouncer was heavily armed with a pocket-sized flashlight.
Anyway, I find this complacent and fearful attitude of our society disturbing and clearly uncivilized. People would rather stand around watching someone or multiple people getting killed as long as it isn't happening to them. Several witnesses were there but none of them did anything. They didn't even get security. He simply happened to come outside for his routine cigarette break. Am I supposed to believe what the manager said that "bar security" is "here to protect me?" She had the nerve to say that there is no reason why I need to bring a gun there. Clearly, I needed that gun. Virginia Tech also told their students they didn't need guns because their security/police was there to protect them. None of the 32 victims last April apparently needed a gun either.
I guess the moral of the story is that when you live in an uncivilized society and if you want a job done right, you have to do it yourself. Either you have to carry a gun for your safety or someone has to carry it for you.If we lived in a logical world, every clerk at the 7-Eleven would have a shotgun behind the counter. Anyway, I'm going to remind the bar manager to erect signs at the entrance of the bar saying "This is a gun-free bar. No weapons allowed. Criminals Exempt." Anyway, that's my rant.
Hi, I'm new here so first I'll introduce myself. I live in Arizona where open carry is legal but bringing a firearm into or on the bar premises is illegal except in "emergency conditions." I just recently became a gun owner and own a semi-auto pistol and a pump-action shotgun. I regularly open carry where it is allowed or where there won't be too much objection. Also, I've been reading this forum for some time but just haven't gotten around to posting yet. Sorry, but this might be a bit long:
Anyway, I was at a bar in central Phoenix having a couple of drinks (three to be exact) and after some waters and becoming sober enough to drive home, I say bye to my friends and walk out of the bar. The second I step outside a man crashes right into me after being shoved by a second man. The next thing I know the man that just hit me was threatening the other man with a beer bottle while the man that pushed him was threatening him with a pocket knife but a big enough one to hurt or kill someone without much trouble. Then there are at least two more men to my right and another three to the left all screaming and cussing at one another. All of this is going on as the bar security who happens to be overweight and near 70 years old is inside reading the Arizona Republic newspaper.
Before I could even get to my car, one of the men jumped into his car and starts trying to run over several of the others who start playing a cat-and-mouse game of running up to the car and then jumping out of the way as the car tries to hit them again. So I go to my car, get out my Glock 19 pistol and strap it on to my hip. Without saying a word to any of them I move away about 30-50 feet from the trouble and stare at them with my hand on the gun ready to pullit out. Immediately, the other six men get in their cars and leave and the seventh in the assault vehicle does not circle back around and leaves. I picked up the knife that one of the criminals dropped before leaving. Naturally, this is when the bouncer comes out to the parking lot and only sees me with the gun on my hip and a knife in my hand.
Since I am a regular at this place, he didn't seem too upset after I explained the situation. Catch this, though. I go back to the place afterwards and the manager was furious at me. I thought I was going to get 86ed but instead was just chewed out. She says, "You don't be sportin' that gun 'round here or I'm callin' the cops next time. You shouldn't get involved in that crap. Next time, youjust go and get our security and we'll handle it. You put our liquor license in jeapordy by bringing that gun here." I asked them what I should do when someone tries to attack me and she says, "Our security is here to protect you. Don't be pullin' that gun o' yours."
My conclusions on this whole ordeal:
What I found most disturbing was not the fight but the way in which our society deals with defensive situations. People have the right to be secure in their persons. This wasn't a case of "getting involved" because I was involved automatically the second I was hit by the guy with the bottle. This is supposed to be the "land of the free" and not the "land of the scared." My opinion is that a civilized person who is adequately trained or equipped to deal with a problematic situation should do what they can to help. Unfortunately, we don't live in avery civilized society when corporate liability is more important than personal safety. I had a legal right according to Arizona law to get that gun and bring it on the property and I would have also been well within my rights to shoot the three that were threatening with weapons. It seems to me that the general gun-fearing liability-minded public has lost its logic. Instead of getting proper credit for potentially saving a lot of lives, you get scolded for doing the right thing. About her saying she would call the cops on me, seriously didn't the cops need to be called? If seven men are attacking each other, clearly the cops need to be called. Clearly, if a problem is out of control enough that I actually have to get my gun, then it probably means that the cops are needed. Stoooopid.
I assume most of the board members here (as with the rest of the law-abiding gun owners) see somewhat eye-to-eye (but please give me your input). If I had left the scene or gotten the security, chances are someone would have been hurt or killed. Every second the fight was escalating and ten seconds wasted could have easily resulted in someone getting run over and another person stabbed. But the bar manager's opinion is basically "Don't worry about it. We can always have a candle-light vigil" afterwards. Not to mention, had I have gotten the security do any of you think he would have wanted to get involved? I had pepperspray, a gun, and a police baton within access. The bouncer was heavily armed with a pocket-sized flashlight.
Anyway, I find this complacent and fearful attitude of our society disturbing and clearly uncivilized. People would rather stand around watching someone or multiple people getting killed as long as it isn't happening to them. Several witnesses were there but none of them did anything. They didn't even get security. He simply happened to come outside for his routine cigarette break. Am I supposed to believe what the manager said that "bar security" is "here to protect me?" She had the nerve to say that there is no reason why I need to bring a gun there. Clearly, I needed that gun. Virginia Tech also told their students they didn't need guns because their security/police was there to protect them. None of the 32 victims last April apparently needed a gun either.
I guess the moral of the story is that when you live in an uncivilized society and if you want a job done right, you have to do it yourself. Either you have to carry a gun for your safety or someone has to carry it for you.If we lived in a logical world, every clerk at the 7-Eleven would have a shotgun behind the counter. Anyway, I'm going to remind the bar manager to erect signs at the entrance of the bar saying "This is a gun-free bar. No weapons allowed. Criminals Exempt." Anyway, that's my rant.