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Thread: OC at Roy Rogers restaurant 10/5/07

  1. #1
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    Hello. As an Ohio CHL licensee my normal method of carry is concealed, but have nothing against open carry, as long as we do it in such a way as to set a good example for those who we encounter along the way.

    Found myself passing by the last remaining Roy Rogers restaurant in this part of the country, it was time for some of their delicious-if-not-completely-healthful fried chicken. Due to the unseasonably warm October weather the concealment vest had gotten too dang hot, so OC was the way to go.

    Dined in, and can't say for sure if anyone even noticed my (IWB) Browning Hi Power, spare magazine, and 'TDI' KaBar knife on the belt. Roy and his wife Dale were staring down at me with smiles from some of the pictures hanging on the wall, that was all the reassurance I needed that everything was okay.

    For me open carry will never be utilized as much as concealed, but it's nice to have options.

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    First and foremost, thank you for sharing. I have to say that because most of my reaction is likely to be mistaken as making fun of you, which it isn't.

    These isolated tales crack me up. Every time I listen to them, it shows me exactly why we all need to be open carrying as much as possible. It reminds me of when I first started open carrying. That sinking feeling like I was the bad guy. That adrenaline rush as if I needed to hurry to avoid being caught. The exhiliration afterwards as if I had just gotten away with something. That is an emotional rollercoaster with a backdrop of nervousness at the very least that we might be "caught" or otherwise hassled. CRIMINALS don't go through as much. It's truly sad to behold.

    What personally saddens me beyond that is the disclaimers the concealed-over-open guys always feel they need to toss in. It's attrocious that they would wish to intimidate or control their countrymen. It's a shame that they've been so dominated by the other side that they're willing to perpetuate their myths in part. If a person wishes to conduct themselves "as to set a good example," that's THEIR choice. If they wish to be a vehement defender of their rights in a way that might not be what the timid consider setting a good example, that's THEIR choice.

    EVERY group is going to have a few at one end of the spectrum, a few at the other, and a whole lot towards the middle. If it's really that important to you to make a good impression, then get out there and make it.

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    My point about making a good impression is simple. If open carriers choose to be "in your face" (sorry, that's the best way I can put it) enough so that businesses make policies against any method of carry in their establishments, all firearms toters lose ground that was too hard fought to gain in the first place.

    Now Dan/Demarest, you canclimb the top ropeabout what I just posted in one of your windbaggy responses all you want--and I'm reasonably certain that you will, at great length, since your own forum has become such a ghost town of late. But in states like Ohio where the 'Gunbuster' signs carry legal weight, I cannot abide the idea of any sort of churlish behavior leading to more of that signage being erected.



    Obviously in spite of your assurances to the contrary, I've takenoffense to your smarmy reply to "my kind".Have beencarrying (concealed)--for a variety of reasons--first for almost 20 years pre-CHL law in Ohio, under the "prudent man" affirmative defense doctrine.Now the last four as a licensee. In all that time it was theoretically legal to open carry, and I knew that, but figured out soon enough that it was just too problematical for my life. Much better for me to write, call, e-mail, and even personally lobby my elected state officials, than to spend time face down in the pavement at gunpoint to gain improvement to Ohio's laws.

    Blather on, Patriot!



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    Brian D. wrote:
    Now Dan/Demarest, you canclimb the top ropeabout what I just posted in one of your windbaggy responses all you want--and I'm reasonably certain that you will, at great length, since your own forum has become such a ghost town of late...

    ...

    Blather on, Patriot!
    Yes, I can see how projecting a positive image is important to you, hypocrite.

    Brian D. wrote:
    My point about making a good impression is simple. If open carriers choose to be "in your face" (sorry, that's the best way I can put it) enough so that businesses make policies against any method of carry in their establishments, all firearms toters lose ground that was too hard fought to gain in the first place.
    Property owners supposedly already have the right to strip you of your right to life in their establishment. There is no shift in ground here. I love how the concealed-over-open carriers always talk about open carriers the way anti's talk about all of us. They say fender benders will lead to shoot outs. Concealers say open carry will lead to fence sitting business owners falling off onto the post their business side. The former has never carried again and refuses to trace the logical steps of a defensive sidearm being for the preservation of life and not instrument of revenge. The latter never carries openly and refuses to trace the logical steps of an uninformed business owner seeing an armed man patronizing his establishment and going about his lawful day peaceably and realizing he has no reason to post his business and not posting as a result of it.

    You can pull up your belt, polish your laurels, and don your holier than thou hat all you'd like. As much as it irritates you, the fact of the matter is that 20+ years or not, I'm an open carrier and you are not. So allow me to report for you the TRUTH from ground zero. Businesses do not discriminate against law-abiding citizens after seeing them remain within the law.

    Brian D. wrote:
    Much better for me to write, call, e-mail, and even personally lobby my elected state officials, than to spend time face down in the pavement at gunpoint to gain improvement to Ohio's laws.
    I'd like to point out that your reference to spending time face down in the pavement in the context of your post suggests that I was at all "in your face." I was not. Police overreacted and very brutally overstepped their bounds and you are blaming the victim. But I'll bet you didn't opt out of the benefits what happened to me provided for YOU, did you, hypocrite? Also, at the risk of shattering your elitist fantasy, the gas station in question was alleged to have been previously posted. And despite an open carrier going in there two or three times a week for two months followed by POLICE coming in and asking for copies of security tapes, that gas station did not post. Oops!

    Half brothers like you do more damage to us than anti's ever will


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    Gee Dan, this thread started out with me open carrying, and it's not like a new thing for me. So how is it than you're an OCer and I'm not? You only want to include those folks who OC all the time? Doesn't sound like much like "unity" --one of your favorite words, apparently--to me.

    Oh that's right, just more of your hyperbole and sophistry. Especiallyenjoy the partyour post that starts out: 'I love how the concealed-over-open carriersalways* talk about open carriers the way anti's talk about all of us*.' (Astericks mine, to indicate the broadbrush strokes.) No we don't, at least not the hundreds of OFCC members and others I've interacted with through the years of lobbying and such.

    Could spend a bunch more back and forth time on this, but it would serve no useful purpose, and be further disruptful to the thread.

    Everybody else, hope you enjoy Demarest's contributions to things around here more than I ever will.





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    Brian D. wrote:
    Could spend a bunch more back and forth time on this, but it would serve no useful purpose, and be further disruptful to the thread.
    I understand why you'd wish to change the subject, avoid the points being made, and try to close the can of bees you've opened.

    Brian D. wrote:
    So how is it than you're an OCer and I'm not?
    Easy. I'm an open carrier because I open carry. You're not based on a couple items YOU provided. First, there's a thread about a one time occurance without incident as if it's news. Not a bad thing, but it IS proof that you are not.

    The tell tale sign (and indicator of you as a half brother) is the old "open carry will lead to posted businesses" myth. Open carriers (and anybody interested in the truth and willing to invest a minimum of mental energy) know better.

    --

    I'd like to add an interesting irony I've just noticed. Concealed over open carriers bully OC'ers because they're afraid that the act of OC will somehow damage them by way of the mythical posting of a business over just that. Which never happens. But by so doing, they are the ones harming our collective 2A rights by demonizing and helping others demonize OC'ers. They might try to PC about it as to not be found out, but when they make comments about "face down on the ground (blaming the victims of tyranny, not the perpetrators who were acting even in violation of their own laws that PROTECT OC)," they tell on themselves.

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    Its nice to hear OC stories from my area. Thanks for sharing.

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    I'm new to this forum but far from new to concealed and open carry, Dan. My tale was a way to share thiswith folks who might be even newer to the board than I, and hence apprehensive about these topics.But you chose to jump in with your usual know-it-all rhetoric and make fun of this...so be it, nothing new for you. 'Look at ME, why won't more people look at ME'?

    Inregards to my contributions to 2A freedoms, I've been lobbying for federal, state, and local level firearms rights for thoseearlier mentioned20 + years, my entire adult life. Letters, phone calls, e-mails, part of a group that attempted to educate and inform the local media, even going to Columbus in person a couple of times to talk to on-the-fence state representatives. Half brother my ass. You know WAY less about people and things then you've deluded yourself into thinking, Dan.

    Thanks for all you've done here so far.



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    Hello reefteach, cheers me up some to see you on the thread.

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    Regular Member reefteach's Avatar
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    Well this will make your day. For those that don't know, if you buy a large french fry at Roy Rogers, it comes in an OWB holster. Check it out:

    (Yeah I know. I've had a few too many large fries in recent years):P






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    Easy. I'm an open carrier because I open carry. You're not based on a couple items YOU provided. First, there's a thread about a one time occurance without incident as if it's news. Not a bad thing, but it IS proof that you are not.

    The tell tale sign (and indicator of you as a half brother) is the old "open carry will lead to posted businesses" myth. Open carriers (and anybody interested in the truth and willing to invest a minimum of mental energy) know better.
    Why......................Do you want to tear apartsomeone who is trying??

    So.........If he is considered a half brother to you in the cause , then whatare you compared to a true open carrying subject such as myself? Should I beat you down and piss in your face because you chose the CHL route also..........Just because you OC with a CHL or are forced to OC because of events......Doesn't make you any better..................We are here to gain members not drive them away. Encourage, don't belittle them................The fact that he chooses to OC tells alot about his interest in the truth ............................:shock:

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    Thank you, Splat, my fellow http://ocohio.myfreeforum.org member.

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    Look again. I was initially polite encouraging, complete with an attempt to free the minds of people that subscribe to inaccurate, outsider's summation of... nothing. Mr. D was the one who decided to marginaliz people on our side and make ghastly statements such as "face down on the pavement." Blaming the victim is not the pursuit of the truth.

    And no, you shouldn't beat me down for any reason. I'm not the one doing or saying anything in an attempt to discourage others from exercising their rights or embrace their freedoms. Concealed over open carriers do, and they use lies to do it with, and often out of elitist, fabricated self-preservation while inflicting the very harm they pretend to be afraid of being visited upon them. Since anti's do that to us all, we should know better than to do it to each other. He's had, according to him, 24+ years to learn these things.

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    Look again. I was initially polite encouraging,
    I agree, not disputing that............

    I took issue on the half brother and thescreaming of only OCing a few timesimplys non-unity.............

    Andregardless of your disclaimer in the first post..........He felt attacked and belittled for missing the "Bullseye" and became defensive..........Which you being at the level of OCing your at , you should have seen this and moved to encourageinstead of engage.....................Look back you was there once...........

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    Demarest wrote:
    Look again. I was initially polite encouraging, complete with an attempt to free the minds of people that subscribe to inaccurate, outsider's summation of... nothing. Mr. D was the one who decided to marginaliz people on our side and make ghastly statements such as "face down on the pavement." Blaming the victim is not the pursuit of the truth.
    Two more points from me.
    First, while you claim to have not been making fun of me in your initial response, your past history from the OFCC Forums--where you recently tried to rejoin, unsuccessfully--and at your own place, http://upohio.org is rife with examples of you attempting to tear down those who don't agree with your way of looking at things, in a similar 'But I don't mean you!' manner whenresponding to their posted opinions. That is just transparently disingenuous.
    Secondly, in the time that has passed since your unpleasant encounter with the police in Oregon Ohio, I spent a bunch of time reviewing the video, as well as your running account of the event and its aftermath. Gotta tell you, there aremore than a fewof us across the Ohio 2A grassroots spectrum that believe that you wanted very badly to become this test case/'patriot hero' for the cause, as it were.
    If you'd have handled that encounter in a less ratched-up manner, inthe opinion of more than just me*, there is a pretty fair chance that it wouldn't have escalated in theway that it did.Mostly the sake of brevity,and also in respect to this board,I'll leave out a bunch of specific points addressing that subject, and willtry my bestto post no more on it.
    *Referring to several OFCC members, other Ohio CHLers, and LEOs of my acquaintence. Yeah I know you want me to cite them all by name, ain't gonna happen.

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    Splat!! wrote:
    I took issue on the half brother and thescreaming of only OCing a few timesimplys non-unity.............
    There was no screaming.

    Reference to his frequency was in answer to his inquiry on how I know he is not an open carrier.

    The half-brother comes from blaming the victim for what was done TO him because the victim was open carrying and Mr. D himself does not.

    Look for yourself.

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    Hey Brian, I know that you do not OC a lot, but I'm curious if you've ever had any kind of interaction because of it? With employees, regular people, LEOs, etc. Being in my area, I'm interested to know what the reaction has been for you.

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    Nothing more than quizzical looks as far as I know, JSK. But then most of myexperiences OCing have been when I wasn't just standing around in one area for any length of time.

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    Blather on, Patriot!
    +1.

    After reading (at great length) Demarests posts, its obvious he's as intolerable to anything except for open carry as the anti's are about guns.

    There is no middle ground. You have no personal freedom to choose to carry concealed. You must always carry openly or you're wrong in the eyes of Demarest. Local dictum, private property and your own insecurities and preferences do not matter.

    The word of Demarest.

    (oooooopppeeeeennnn caarrrrryyy)

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    Well this will make your day. For those that don't know, if you buy a large french fry at Roy Rogers, it comes in an OWB holster.
    As a fellow well-rounded gun owner, all I can say is... I want one. ;p Nice pic!

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    Wynder wrote:
    After reading (at great length) Demarests posts, its obvious he's as intolerable to anything except for open carry as the anti's are about guns.
    I thought you were an educator? Your critical thinking skills are quite lacking, as is your understanding of English grammar. You would mean "intolerant."

    I'm not the one saying that CC has a time and place. I'm not the one saying that when a US citizen is victim of police brutality, the police are correct, and we should not exercise our right to CC because of it. I'm opposing mirrored statements like that of others. That's a complete 180 of what you're claiming. Which is not based on this conversation at all, but the thread where you too made it clear that you believe it is somehow YOUR place to decide how others live and I rebutted it.

    Those interested in the spillover I'm referring to can simply go here and begin with Wynder's second post and the debate that ensued. On this side of the coin anyways. On his, there was equal amount of tantrum and lashing out as we saw right here.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/5031.html

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    I thought you were an educator?
    I'm a software and database developer and I teach computer science courses. Not English -- and I know I can't be like the all-mightly Demarest who never has made a typo before. That's why you're superior in every way.


    I'm not the one saying that CC has a time and place.
    But you just said, "...we all need to be open carrying as much as possible..."

    Which is not based on this conversation at all, but the thread where you too made it clear that you believe it is somehow YOUR place to decide how others live and I rebutted it.
    I can understand why you're trying to change the topic; however, in response to your misguided understandings of my ramblings, I believed it is the property owners place to decide how people must behave while on their property -- something you always seem to try to twist to suit your own agenda.

    The only reason I'm 'lashing out' is because you're hurting the cause more than anything with your level of extremism. Yes, you can change the laws 100% with a good offense and a good lawyer; however, the culture of the people will not change 100% overnight with the changing of that law. It took scores of years to get to where we are now and it'll probably take scores of years to get to where we want to be, but people who've been misinformed and misguided need to be acclimated to the Second Amendment.

    You are simply a zealot whose sole purpose it is to critique and berate anyone who does not follow your line of thinking. You're welcome to your line of thinking; however, in the end, you still come off looking like an ass.

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    Wynder wrote:
    But you just said, "...we all need to be open carrying as much as possible..."
    I can believe that we need to open carry without damning those who do not. You REALLY need to read better instead of jumping to conclusions based on a grudge you're carrying.

    Wynder wrote:
    I believed it is the property owners place to decide how people must behave while on their property -- something you always seem to try to twist to suit your own agenda.
    Actually, it's something that I rarely discuss. Those interested where your grudge came from can follow the link I provided and see that it is YOU who shouts "property owner's rights" as a shield even when it's not the topic. Just as it isn't here.

    Wynder wrote:
    The only reason I'm 'lashing out' is because you're hurting the cause more than anything with your level of extremism.
    Again, if you came with an open mind instead of a grudge, you would see that I'm trying to defend all of us from the damage inflicted by our own kind. If you're so worried about hurting the cause, then be sure to explain to Mr. D how blaming the victim and discouraging others from exercising their rights is "hurting the cause."

    Wynder wrote:
    You're welcome to your line of thinking; however, in the end, you still come off looking like an ass.
    The only way I look like an ass is that I'm wasting time using logic to argue with somebody who clearly has no interest in facts or logic.

    If programming is your field, I would expect a more competent grasp of A, B, C progression.

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    Actually, it's something that I rarely discuss. Those interested where your grudge came from can follow the link I provided and see that it is YOU who shouts "property owner's rights" as a shield even when it's not the topic. Just as it isn't here.
    Neither is that other thread which is why I'm boggled you continue to bring it up, unless it's only to advertise your mentality that people must follow your line of thinking.

    And, for the uninitiated, the issue of guns on campus (going back to our other thread since you seem dead set on dragging it into other threads) are inexorably linked.

    Again, if you came with an open mind instead of a grudge, you would see that I'm trying to defend all of us from the damage inflicted by our own kind. If you're so worried about hurting the cause, then be sure to explain to Mr. D how blaming the victim and discouraging others from exercising their rights is "hurting the cause."
    I'm in full support of Brian's actions -- I fully understand that his personal preference is going to be carrying concealed. I'm glad that he decided to open carry, even though he had some apprehension about it.

    What I resent is you coming in and trouncing over his efforts which your holier-than-thou, "You're not allowed to make disclaimers in your posts," and your non-sequitor editorials.

    The only way I look like an ass is that I'm wasting time using logic to argue with somebody who clearly has no interest in facts or logic.
    You do that quite well without me, believe me. Because, especially in this thread, we have discussed no facts and no logic. This is all a matter of someones personal preference and feelings; though, since you seem so entrenched in logic and facts, you're unable to process that information while you're reading and blasting the folks whom you supposedly are "supporting".

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