Restaurant question:

OC-Glock19 · Oct 8, 2007

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I just got a BUG this last weekend and I was going to go out to eat tonight and was wondering if I can openly carry my main gun and leave the BUG concealed. I can't find anything in the Virginia code that that addresses this satisfactorily. Any help would be appreciated.

(Edited for spelling)

UTOC-45-44 · Oct 8, 2007

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OC-Glock19 wrote:

I just got a BUG this last weekend and I was going to go out to eat tonight and was wondering if I can openly carry my main gun and leave the BUG concealed. I can't find anything in the Virginia code that that addresses this satisfactorily. Any help would be appreciated.

(Edited for spelling)

VA code states that Guns cannot be concealed as far as I have understood when it's addressed to Restaurants. It's a absolute when it comes to Restaurants that serves Alcohol. Non-Alcohol Restaurants I 'm not so sure about but U will get alot of help from Your Fellow Virginians with codes long enough to get yourself sleepy

soloban · Oct 8, 2007

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If the establishment serves alcohol I'd vote no. You can remain concealed if they don't serve alcohol. Law seems pretty clear to me.

18.2-308 J3. No person shall carry a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia; however, nothing herein shall prohibit any sworn law-enforcement officer from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit.

OC-Glock19 · Oct 8, 2007

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Thanks for the replies. You're right, it's obvious that NO concealed handguns are allowed in restaurants that serve alcohol in Virginia, even if you're carrying one openly.

I hadn't thought this through completely before I bought my backup gun. It's a real bummer that I'm going to have to leave it in the car because I really don't want to arm a car thief.

sedjester · Oct 8, 2007

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Why don't you just open carry both of them while in the restaurant and then conceal the BUG when you leave?

Demarest · Oct 8, 2007

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Don't get discouraged yet. Having one on the left and one on the right makes things a lot better. OC'ing one and CC'ing the other gives you the best of both worlds. Just choose restaurants that don't serve alcohol.

OC-Glock19 · Oct 9, 2007

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sedjester wrote:

Why don't you just open carry both of them while in the restaurant and then conceal the BUG when you leave?

The second gun is a Kel-Tec P3AT and I only have a pocket holster for it so there's no way to transition to open carry. Most of the restaurants I go to serve alcohol, so either I must leave the BUG at home or leave it in the car. I'm loathe to arm a car burglar, and so I'm just going to have to either get a different holster so I can open carry 2 guns or I'm going to have to plan ahead and leave the BUG at home.

HankT · Oct 9, 2007

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OC-Glock19 wrote:

sedjester wrote:

Why don't you just open carry both of them while in the restaurant and then conceal the BUG when you leave?

Click to expand...

The second gun is a Kel-Tec P3AT and I only have a pocket holster for it so there's no way to transition to open carry. Most of the restaurants I go to serve alcohol, so either I must leave the BUG at home or leave it in the car. I'm loathe to arm a car burglar, and so I'm just going to have to either get a different holster so I can open carry 2 guns or I'm going to have to plan ahead and leave the BUG at home.

Can't you just open carry the BUG in your hand while in the restaurant? And then just set it down next to your beverage glass while actually using your fork and knife?

After your meal and upon exiting the restaurant, just pop the BUG into the pocket holster and you're golden.

UTOC-45-44 · Oct 9, 2007

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HankT wrote:

OC-Glock19 wrote:

sedjester wrote:

Why don't you just open carry both of them while in the restaurant and then conceal the BUG when you leave?

Click to expand...

The second gun is a Kel-Tec P3AT and I only have a pocket holster for it so there's no way to transition to open carry. Most of the restaurants I go to serve alcohol, so either I must leave the BUG at home or leave it in the car. I'm loathe to arm a car burglar, and so I'm just going to have to either get a different holster so I can open carry 2 guns or I'm going to have to plan ahead and leave the BUG at home.

Click to expand...

Can't you just open carry the BUG in your hand while in the restaurant? And then just set it down next to your beverage glass while actually using your fork and knife?

After your meal and upon exiting the restaurant, just pop the BUG into the pocket holster and you're golden.

"Can't you just open carry the BUG in your hand while in the restaurant?":shock:

That's a GOOD one HankT...Brandishing a Firearm..."Man with a Gun!!!" call

He would have a set of new and nice shiny Bracelets, courtesy the Local PD, before he even sat down to eat.

sccrref · Oct 9, 2007

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HankT wrote:

OC-Glock19 wrote:

sedjester wrote:

Why don't you just open carry both of them while in the restaurant and then conceal the BUG when you leave?

Click to expand...

The second gun is a Kel-Tec P3AT and I only have a pocket holster for it so there's no way to transition to open carry. Most of the restaurants I go to serve alcohol, so either I must leave the BUG at home or leave it in the car. I'm loathe to arm a car burglar, and so I'm just going to have to either get a different holster so I can open carry 2 guns or I'm going to have to plan ahead and leave the BUG at home.

Click to expand...

Can't you just open carry the BUG in your hand while in the restaurant? And then just set it down next to your beverage glass while actually using your fork and knife?

After your meal and upon exiting the restaurant, just pop the BUG into the pocket holster and you're golden.

Hank T, don't you know that no resturant worth going to is going to let a customer bring a BUG into their fine dining establishment. This would totally ruin theit "A" rating with the city health inspector. :shock:Not to mention the possible er I mean probable brandishing charge.

To get on topic, have not looked at pocket holsters before but is it possible to switch it to the opposite pocket and hang it on the outside of the pocket?

DreQo · Oct 9, 2007

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You could hang the BUG around your neck?

I understand where your question came from, and I've thought the same. The purpose of restricting concealed handguns is (supposedly) so there is no question about who is and isn't armed. This purpose is expressed in NC with the fact that you CAN open carry in a bank, you just can't carry concealed. This, I'm assuming, is the same reason you're required to open carry in VA while in a resturant that serves alcohol.

So, based on this reasoning, why would having a concealed BUG be a problem when you're already obviously carrying openly? They look at you, and see you are armed...what more do they want? The way the law is written, a concealed gun is a concealed gun, regardless of what else you're carrying. Doesn't really make sense though, does it?

Fallguy · Oct 12, 2007

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I have to say I find this interesting reading. In TN the places that are ok to carry are ok and the places that are off limits are off limits regardless of CC or OC.

I didn't even think that in some states youcould OC in places that you couldn't CC, another reason I like this site...and another reminder to check the laws of any states you may be visiting...

Tomahawk · Oct 12, 2007

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Fallguy wrote:

I didn't even think that in some states youcould OC in places that you couldn't CC, another reason I like this site...and another reminder to check the laws of any states you may be visiting...

Well, that's the case in Virginia only because when all the gun laws were being passed they all focused on CC and forgot to ban OC. If not for that, I have no doubt the General Assembley would've banned all guns from restaurants when they went to shall-issue in the 1990s.

HankT · Oct 12, 2007

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DreQo wrote:

So, based on this reasoning, why would having a concealed BUG be a problem when you're already obviously carrying openly? They look at you, and see you are armed...what more do they want? The way the law is written, a concealed gun is a concealed gun, regardless of what else you're carrying. Doesn't really make sense though, does it?

No it doesn't make sense. Good analysis. It is not logical. It should change but it'd be hard to change. There is little benefit to changing it and only a teeny-tiny constituency that would or should support it.

Tomahawk wrote:

Well, that's the case in Virginia only because when all the gun laws were being passed they all focused on CC and forgot to ban OC. If not for that, I have no doubt the General Assembley would've banned all guns from restaurants when they went to shall-issue in the 1990s.

That seems very likely to me. I've noticed that about VA laws. There are several mismatches to the laws regarding CC vs. OC, wtih OCing being, in some cases more liberal.

For instance, it doesn't make any sense to prohibit 18-20 year-olds from CCing but allow them to OC.

Actually it doesn't make sense to have a background check for John N. Publlic who wants to carry his SIG 220 concealed but not have a background forChip "the Neutralizer" Smith who wants to carry his XD 45 openly.

Anomalies.

And the disparity also means that some people can carry a gun (OC) who would not qualify to get a CC permit. That really doesn't make any sense. That's insane, actually. At least in some easily identifiable cases.

Of course, no one wants to admit that...

longwatch · Oct 12, 2007

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Firstly who said gun control was supposed to make sense?
Second, in practice, the 'insane' allowing of permitless people to OC has caused no measurable crimewave that I've noticed. Care to elaborate Hank?

HankT · Oct 12, 2007

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longwatch wrote:

Firstly who said gun control was supposed to make sense?
Second, in practice, the 'insane' allowing of permitless people to OC has caused no measurable crimewave that I've noticed. Care to elaborate Hank?

If you don't understand what I said, then there isn't much hope for you, longwatch.

It's very simple: There is a mismatch between legal requirements for OC vs. CC.

Certain guys whoare unqualified to get a CC could legally walk down the street OCing.

Doesn't make sense. Which is mostly to say, it's inconsistent.

I would definitelyadvocate for making it consistent. It would be a good structural change. Either remove the need for a background check for CC or add the background check for OC.

Simple. Either one would be a coherent basis for regulation.

I certainly don't trust some 18 year old goofball who is walking around with a gun on his hip just to be cool and impress his friends. Let him wait until he is 21.

longwatch · Oct 12, 2007

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HankT wrote:

longwatch wrote:

Firstly who said gun control was supposed to make sense?
Second, in practice, the 'insane' allowing of permitless people to OC has caused no measurable crimewave that I've noticed. Care to elaborate Hank?

Click to expand...

If you don't understand what I said, then there isn't much hope for you, longwatch.

It's very simple: There is a mismatch between legal requirements for OC vs. CC.

Certain guys whoare unqualified to get a CC could legally walk down the street OCing.

Doesn't make sense. Which is mostly to say, it's inconsistent.

I would definitelyadvocate for making it consistent. It would be a good structural change. Either remove the need for a background check for CC or add the background check for OC.

Simple. Either one would be a coherent basis for regulation.

I certainly don't trust some 18 year old goofball who is walking around with a gun on his hip just to be cool and impress his friends. Let him wait until he is 21.

I understood you completely hank I just wanted to see you advocate gun control once again. Thanks for playing.

HankT · Oct 12, 2007

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longwatch wrote:

HankT wrote:

longwatch wrote:

Firstly who said gun control was supposed to make sense?
Second, in practice, the 'insane' allowing of permitless people to OC has caused no measurable crimewave that I've noticed. Care to elaborate Hank?

Click to expand...

If you don't understand what I said, then there isn't much hope for you, longwatch.

It's very simple: There is a mismatch between legal requirements for OC vs. CC.

Certain guys whoare unqualified to get a CC could legally walk down the street OCing.

Doesn't make sense. Which is mostly to say, it's inconsistent.

I would definitelyadvocate for making it consistent. It would be a good structural change. Either remove the need for a background check for CC or add the background check for OC.

Simple. Either one would be a coherent basis for regulation.

I certainly don't trust some 18 year old goofball who is walking around with a gun on his hip just to be cool and impress his friends. Let him wait until he is 21.

Click to expand...

I understood you completely hank I just wanted to see you advocate gun control once again. Thanks for playing.

Oh, drat! Your powerful intellect tricked me!

But, oh wise one, if you look in there and read all the words, you will see that I endorse equallyremoving a "gun control" check: the CC background check.

Now, my question for you longwatch:

1. Do you support the legality of a person who OCs (any age) who would not be qualified to pass a background check for CC?

2. If yes, why?

3. Do you support the reduction of the age for a CC permit to 18?

longwatch · Oct 12, 2007

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Why in the world then would you want more gun control?
As to your questions.
1. Yes
2. Why not there is no problem with it right now.
3. Yes I would lower the CHP to 18, works fine in Indiana, and keep removing restrictions until we reach Vermont status.

HankT · Oct 12, 2007

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longwatch wrote:

Why in the world then would you want more gun control?
As to your questions.
1. Yes
2. Why not there is no problem with it right now.
3. Yes I would lower the CHP to 18, works fine in Indiana, and keep removing restrictions until we reach Vermont status.

OK. We'll just wait until some goofy guyd OCing does something screwy with his gun. Then the newspaper story will include the line:

Under VA law, a citizen must successfully pass a background check in order to legally carry a gun in a concealed manner. However, there is no such requirement for a person who carries a gun openly. Joe Screwy, because of his prior record, would not have qualified for a concealed carry permit. But since he was carrying the gun openly, he could not be prohibited from doing so. There are presently no checks whatsover on citizens who open carry guns. Police are instructed not to even stop and question anyone who is open carrying a gun. The victims in the incident...."

What do you think the media and the legislature will be proposing to do to "fix" the problem, longwatch?

a) remove the background check on CC permits.

b) add a background check for OC.

LOL.

Restaurant question:

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