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Thread: JUST MOVED TO AZ

  1. #1
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    HEY ALL,I'M NEW TO THIS FORUM. I MOVED TO ARIZONA A FEW WEEKS AGO. I WANT TO OPEN CARRY MY XD .40 BUT I AM A LITTLE REPREHENSIVE ABOUT IT BECAUSE I DONT KNOW HOW THE LOCAL LEO'S WOULD RESPOND TO THAT. I LIVE IN RIMROCK BUT I TRAVEL TO CAMP VERDE, PRESCOTT, COTTONWOOD, SEDONA, AND PHOENIX OFTEN. HAS ANYBODY ON THIS FORUM HAD ANY PROBLEMS AROUND THESE AREAS? I REALLY WANT TO EXERCISE MY RIGHTS BUT I DON'T WANT TO GET IN TROUBLE BECAUSE SOMEONE CALLS IN "MAN WITH A GUN" TO THE LOCAL POLICE DEPARTMENT. ANY INFO ON THIS MATTER WOULD BE NICE. THANKS.

  2. #2
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    I just recently started open carrying in Arizona and haven't had any serious problems. I did have some concerning looks from one LEO and some disturbing reactions from a rent-a-cop (security guard) but have never had any actual problems doing it. In fact, it seems like they never even notice. As long as you aren't also carrying a box of donuts, you should be fine. Please familiarize yourself with Arizona laws. Do not carry in places that serve alcohol, K-12 schools, or any place where there is a sign prohibiting it. If you are used to carrying openly elsewhere, you should be used to this. Ignore people's stares but always be aware of your surroundings.

  3. #3
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    Well, stop shouting in CAPS and you are less likley to get 911 called

  4. #4
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    Thank you guys for the info. I guess as long as I follow the laws and carry only where allowed I should have no problems. What do do you guys carry? Oh and that comment about the caps was funny.:celebrate

  5. #5
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    Welcome

    I carry a SIG 226 9mm and an XD-40 sub compact. Soon to have a 1911 of some kind.

  6. #6
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    Welcome to the forum, and to AZ!

    Not sure if Rimrock is as liberal as some areas over that way, but I've never even heard of anyone getting hassled in the big city in AZ. (Unlike in the Virginia forum, where someone is getting slapped down by the cops every day.)

    Arizona is a great place to be a firearms owner!

  7. #7
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Welcome to Arizona!

    I live in Tucson and open carry everywhere it is legal, including the bank and most stores and don't get second glances.

    Caveat! The only safe way to carry openly is with a CCW permit. ARS 13-3102.F, the statute that defines open carry, has been interpreted by the courts to mean something entirely different. The law defines open carry as a gun in a belt holster and the holster (not the gun) must be "wholly or partially visible." the courts have interpreted "wholly or partially visible" to mean that it must be obvious to a casual observer that you are carrying a weapon. If your gun is on your right side, and the cop is approaching you from your left side, you are carrying a concealed weapon.

    A good synopsis of the pitfalls of carrying open wtihout a permit is in "Legal Issue Relating to the Use of Deadly Force" (scroll down on the linked page you'll find the link to the document). Check out pages 20-22. This is the document that CCW Instructors are required to use when teaching CCW classes.

    If you want to help restore your right to keep and bear arms in Arizona, I invite you to join the premier "gun rights" group in the State: Arizona Citizens Defense League.

    Fred
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    http://www.azcdl.org/html/join_us_.html

  8. #8
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    I don't want to be too picky here azcdlfred, but "wholly or partially visible," is usually defined under the reasonable person clause like in self-defense situations. A casual observer would see the gun if it is in an OWB holster... the OWB holster and no cover garment would be a 99% surety that if you ever went to court, you'd made an honest attempt to OC. Don't be scared by those cops who say "it's dark, I can't see you're gun, thus you're concealing it." BS.

    AZ is overall a VERY OC friendly state.

    azcdlfred wrote:
    Welcome to Arizona!

    I live in Tucson and open carry everywhere it is legal, including the bank and most stores and don't get second glances.

    Caveat! The only safe way to carry openly is with a CCW permit. ARS 13-3102.F, the statute that defines open carry, has been interpreted by the courts to mean something entirely different. The law defines open carry as a gun in a belt holster and the holster (not the gun) must be "wholly or partially visible." the courts have interpreted "wholly or partially visible" to mean that it must be obvious to a casual observer that you are carrying a weapon. If your gun is on your right side, and the cop is approaching you from your left side, you are carrying a concealed weapon.

  9. #9
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    IdahoCorsair wrote:
    I don't want to be too picky here azcdlfred, but "wholly or partially visible," is usually defined under the reasonable person clause like in self-defense situations. A casual observer would see the gun if it is in an OWB holster... the OWB holster and no cover garment would be a 99% surety that if you ever went to court, you'd made an honest attempt to OC. Don't be scared by those cops who say "it's dark, I can't see you're gun, thus you're concealing it." BS.
    Glad to see you take this seriously! There are two Appellate court cases that clouded the definition in Arizona:

    1. State v. Moerman which says that the convenyance you use to carry your weapon must put others on ntoice that you carrying a weapon.
    2. State v. Adams which says that a weapon hidden from ordinary observation is concealed.

    You can find these at the AzCDL website

    The courts have given LEO's and prosecutors tremendous latitude. Fortunately, 99.9% of LEOs' are really great and will give you the benefit of the doubt. But, do you want to be the person who gets arrested because the LEO didn't see your gun (it has happened) and canyou afford to fight it in court? We (AzCDL) are working, via the legislature, to remove the obfuscation.

    As you noted, AZ is gun friendly - but not as gun friendly as itcould be. Like I said, I experienced far greater RKBA in VA than I do here in AZ - that's why I co-founded AzCDL. I want my rights back!

    Fred

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    Not to pick at you, Fred, but it seems like the VA forum is full of stories of people who OC and get hassled about it. You just don't see that in the AZ forum.

    Sure, the law in AZ maybe be less clear because of those two incredibly stupid rulings, but it doesn't seem to have translated into any actual problem on the streets.

    Still, I appreciate and support (via letters to my representatives) your efforts to clarify the situation so it does not end up becoming a problem for someone.

    I'll be joining up with you when I get back home to AZ. (I'm off playing in another desert right now.)

  11. #11
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    mzbk2l wrote:
    I'll be joining up with you when I get back home to AZ. (I'm off playing in another desert right now.)
    Thanks for keeping AzCDL in mind. More improtantly - if that other desert is in the Middle East, thanks for what you're doing!

    Fred

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    I live in Cottonwood. I change off between open carry and concealed carry. In Sedona I open carry all the time. To many anti gun out of staters come to Sedona. There open carry is my way of telling them they are in my state I'm not in their state.

  13. #13
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    You never had any problems with local law enforcement? I mean I want to open carry but I don't want to get hassled everywhere I go. I like to keep to myself and explaining to a cop my reason to carry makes me want to not want to carry my XD just to avoid the problems.

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    Rodasj wrote:
    You never had any problems with local law enforcement? I mean I want to open carry but I don't want to get hassled everywhere I go. I like to keep to myself and explaining to a cop my reason to carry makes me want to not want to carry my XD just to avoid the problems.
    To be honest if you worry that much about what someone might think even a cop maybe you better rethink carrying altogether.Me I care less what any of them think it is my right.

    If you carry and have to use your gun you will have alot of problems. Their is way more then putting a gun on your hip. You have to not care what anyone tiinks and there can be NO DOUBT in your mind if need be you will use your gun without hesitation. If you don't fill them two bills odds are that the gun will get you killed instead of saving your life.

    Sorry but that is the way it is in the real world

  15. #15
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    "Their is way more then putting a gun on your hip. You have to not care what anyone tiinks and there can be NO DOUBT in your mind if need be you will use your gun without hesitation. If you don't fill them two bills odds are that the gun will get you killed instead of saving your life."


    VERY TRUE MY FRIEND! I TAKE GUNS VERY SERIOUSLY, NEEDLESS TO SAY I CARRY IT NOW. KNOWING WELL WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES ARE.

  16. #16
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    Rodasj
    Welcome to the Grand Canyon State.....where OC is protected by law.

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    Rodasj wrote:
    "Their is way more then putting a gun on your hip. You have to not care what anyone tiinks and there can be NO DOUBT in your mind if need be you will use your gun without hesitation. If you don't fill them two bills odds are that the gun will get you killed instead of saving your life."


    VERY TRUE MY FRIEND! I TAKE GUNS VERY SERIOUSLY, NEEDLESS TO SAY I CARRY IT NOW. KNOWING WELL WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES ARE.
    Good for you! Many think it is a matter of just having a gun kind of like walking around with a nice watch. You must always do your best to stay out of trouble. Notice I said try to stay out of Not Run Away From. You must be good natured but you must also have your own line in the sand. If that line is crossed you must have inside what it takes to draw the gun and use it without hesitation

  18. #18
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    The AzCDL helped get the legislature to pass a bill (SB 1301) that would have made OC much clearer in AZ, but our left wing liberal governor Napolitano veto'd it with the snyde remark that if you want to carry a gun, "get a permit"

    We need to vote her out of office & put in a true supporter of the 2nd Amendment during the next election so that we can make easier progress in this area.

    You can read the details in the June AzCDL newsletter:

    http://www.azcdl.org/AzCDL0607FinalWeb.pdf

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