Had a round bulge at the range....

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Ammo's an accesory, right?

Had a round bulge coming out of my HiPoint 995 Carbine last week.

Shayne was firing it, and it didn't sound any different, and he didn't notice any difference.

I noticed the brass when it fell on the table though.

The base of the round bulged.


There's a hole punched in the back of the casing, through the primer and the brass. The primer was knocked out.



There's metal on the breach face, and it matches the imprint on the back of the brass.


The brass was covered in soot when it came out, if that makes any difference.

The end of the round was crimped on itself, but that was because of a fail to extract on that round.

It was the last round we were firing that day, so there hasn't been a round fired since.

Anyone seen anything like this?

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Kinda looks like the gun wasn't in battery when the round went off--is that possible?

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Hmm.....never encountered that problem with any of my firearms......if you are worried about the condition of the carbine, give Hi Point a call and they can walk you through troubleshooting and give you instructions on sending it in if it sounds like something has gone wrong. Don't be afraid to use that lifetime warranty.....

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I don't suppose this could have been one of those rounds that was chambered more than once or twice and set the bullet back into the casing, could it? If not that, I think the not-in-battery theory is a good one.. That gun sure looks beat up..

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I don’t see how the gun firing out of battery would cause the primer to depart the fix. A blown primer is usually a sign of overpressure. Too much powder, bullet set-back, or headspacing issues. That’s my guess(es). Ask someone that reloads, they are usually pretty aware of these problems.

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Brian D. wrote:

Kinda looks like the gun wasn't in battery when the round went off--is that possible?

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No, this isn't a Glock.
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/dimples.html

But seriously, that's what OOB means, not seated properly, but still capable of being fired. (Yaa, researching new terms!)

DreQo wrote:

I don't suppose this could have been one of those rounds that was chambered more than once or twice and set the bullet back into the casing, could it?  If not that, I think the not-in-battery theory is a good one..  That gun sure looks beat up..

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Nope, the round was fresh out of the box.

I was actually thinking about the out-of battery problem as well. I know I had a round that would not let the slide on my 1911 go all the way forward... I ended up giving it to someone else, who was able to set it off just fine in his.

It seems like the round wasn't seated all the way forward, and the breech face smacked against it, and the sides were allowed to bulge out, at least in one area of the brass.

There's a centimeter-wide smooth section right across the primer.

As far as the primer coming out, the breech face literally stamped a flat section out of the brass. The smushed primer fell out while I was handling the brass after the fact.

Also, I just figured out how to take close-up pictures with this camera, and make it so they are actually in focus....





I'll check with my grandpa, as well. He does, or used to do reloading a lot, so he might be a good source, incase it was an overpressure round.

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I'm no expert in these matters, but I wanted to bring up some ideas (theories actually):

1. The gun is very dirty inside. You have metal buildup in the breach. Could it be possible that metal has built up on the end of the firing pin, making the firing pin sharp enough to puncture the primer? The pin is supposed to be round, I've heard of metal buildup on the pinturning itinto a sharp point instead of a round surface.
2. Again, the gun is dirty, and you mentioned soot buildup on the case that was extracted. If enough soot and GPR has built up in the chamber, the bullet may not seat properly. The tolerances may have allowed the bullet to seat far enough into the chamber for the gun to be "in battery" but yet not far enough in to fully support the case. Since thebolt was not "locked" in battery when the shell fired, the bullet prematurely pushed out of the chamber during ignition, causing the expansion at the base of the case. (This rifle uses simple blowback)
3. If enough GPR and soot is present in the chamber, it may impede the travel of the bullet while it is chambered, potentially pushing the bullet rearward in the case resulting bullet set-back andan overcharged round.
4. I'd guess that round was overpressure in some way, it sure formed a nice imprint of the breech face on the case! I've seen rifle rounds do this, but never a handgun round. Is there any foreign material on the breech face? The face should be flat and smooth. That case head stamping should not be there, even on an overpowered charge.

If I had to bet on what caused this, I'd say you have a firing pin that punctured your primer, and a gun that fired out of battery. I don't think point #3 played a factor in this case, I've only heard one story (note the use of the word "story") about powder buildup causing bullet set-back.

Again, I'm not an expert, or a gunsmith. Just passing on some knowledge picked up from listening to people at the gun range and reading firearms websites.

For sure, I would take that gun apart and thoroughly clean it!

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First off, I'm not an gun smith per say, ( back yard/shadetree sorta gunsmith, Gimmy a couple diamond files and i can fix just abought anything).

It looks to me the round didn't chamber all the way, if it had there would be no way for it to swell like it did, hince all the soot when it came out. ( blowback )

You said it didn't eject, as the round fired and the bolt came back , the ejector rode over the swelled case and missed the rim, thus no eject.

The scary part is if the round didn't chamber all the way, and it fired anyway, that could lead to a potential bad situation.

If your gona shoot it again without having it looked at by a real gunsmith, I would highly suggest wearing Your kevlar face mask!!

Almost forgot, if the bolt was not all the way forward that may be the cause of the firing pin puncturing all the waw through the primer.

For what it's worth.

Of corse another possiblity is that the bolt didn't lock and when the round was fired , the case cam part way out of the chamber as it fired, creating the buldge.

Again, for what it worth.

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It wasn't soot, so much as char, like burned powder. Unfortunantly, it all wiped off in my pocket.

More specific to the ejection, the action slammed back on it before it could clear the ejection port. I'm guessing that means the gasses weren't properly vented to cycle the action properly. (?)

It didn't stay in the chamber, it just kind of flopped back, and got a nice crimping on the... bullet end of the brass. Pulling the charging handle back freed the brass with no problem.



I'll probably call HiPoint on Friday, since I'm busy tomorrow.

Also, are we going to have to coin IANAGS to go with IANAL?

:lol:

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AbNo wrote:

I'll probably call HiPoint on Friday, since I'm busy tomorrow.

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Lifetime warranty, right? Let them deal with it and be safe shooting something else instead in the meantime.

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AbNo wrote:

I'll probably call HiPoint on Friday, since I'm busy tomorrow.

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Ask them to look at these photos when you get them on the phone. Might help them narrow it down quicker.

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That looks like a dirty beat up gun.

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openryan wrote:

That looks like a dirty beat up gun.

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Nah, it's just missing several pieces in those pictures. I'd partially disassembled it to get a better shot.

This is actually the only problem I've had with it so far.

unrequited wrote:

Lifetime warranty, right? Let them deal with it and be safe shooting something else instead in the meantime.

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Oh, you don't have to tell me.

I can't afford ammo right now anyway. I've been out of work for a while.

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First, I can tell from the breech imprint on the back of the cartridge that the pressure exceeded 60,000psi.

:what:The flowing point of brass. If it had gone off out of battery the brass would have blown out completely. I believe there was enough residual pressure as the action cycled the cartridge out to bulge the back 3/8 inch or so that was out of the barrel before the bullet exited the barrel. I think you are looking at a double charge:what:that bounced the bolt and smashed the front of the cartridge upon ejection as it slamed forward. Look for damage where the ejection spring bottomed out. Guide rod or bolt itself. With luck, everything is OK. This is why they rate guns at 50% of actual failure pressure. The other possibility is detonation. Ace

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I also think the hole was punched in the primer as the bolt was slammed back and the pin exposed. Primers unseat when they fire and reseat against the bolt as the charge ignites. With an overcharge the pin overextends because the pin can extend farther with the bolt open and becomes a holepunch. Ace

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I'm sorry, a double charge? I'm guessing a double-poweder'd load?

Also, I know the front of the brass was crimped, twice, because it didn't eject, and caught again when manually cycling the action (improper clearing procedure).

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Too much power either from too much powder, or the charge being comperssed for some reason, or detonation of the entire charge going off instantaneously.

Are you saying the brass was stuck half ejected from the barrel? That might change my analysis if much of the damage to the brass was from removal. Ace

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No no, the round failed to eject, the bolt closed on it, then closed on it AGAIN when trying to clear it from the chamber.