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Thread: Sheriff's Deputy kills 6 in Crandon, Wisconsin

  1. #1
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    It seems to me we need new laws to protect the public against police with guns. How about requiring them to lock their firearms in the station house at the end of their shifts? It would have averted this tradgedy in Wisconsin.

    We need more laws to protect us against police off duty.

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    Many LEO believe themselves always 'on duty' to some extent, certainly to the extent that the LEOSA was approved and passed.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    taurusfan wrote:
    It seems to me we need new laws to protect the public against police with guns. How about requiring them to lock their firearms in the station house at the end of their shifts? It would have averted this tradgedy in Wisconsin.

    We need more laws to protect us against police off duty.
    A LEO should have the same right to carry off duty as you and I. How could we justify telling a LEO not to carry any more than we could tell an engineer or grocery clerk or a retired person not to carry? To do that would play into the hands of the anti gun crowd.

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    acrimsontide wrote:
    How could we justify telling a LEO not to carry any more than we could tell an engineer or grocery clerk or a retired person not to carry?
    How? By accepting their, the LEO's answer to the question of 'are we equal or not?'

    If we are equal then, of course 'all good people ought to be armed where they will.'

    Otherwise we must establish an hierarchy of 'equality' and I submit that LEO in general aren't near the epitome of equality.

    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    taurusfan wrote:
    It seems to me we need new laws to protect the public against police with guns. How about requiring them to lock their firearms in the station house at the end of their shifts? It would have averted this tradgedy in Wisconsin.

    We need more laws to protect us against police off duty.
    Laws don't protect me. But my .45 does.

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    danbus wrote:
    taurusfan wrote:
    It seems to me we need new laws to protect the public against police with guns. How about requiring them to lock their firearms in the station house at the end of their shifts? It would have averted this tradgedy in Wisconsin.

    We need more laws to protect us against police off duty.
    Laws don't protect me. But my .45 does.
    Maybe they could start printing restraining orders on kevlar or ceramic plates...
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    taurusfan wrote:
    It seems to me we need new laws to protect the public against police with guns. How about requiring them to lock their firearms in the station house at the end of their shifts? It would have averted this tradgedy in Wisconsin.

    We need more laws to protect us against police off duty.
    or at least against 20 YEAR OLD sheriffs:shock:.

    Here in Utah I think we have to be 21 to be a LEO of ANY kind

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    acrimsontide wrote:
    How could we justify telling a LEO not to carry any more than we could tell an engineer or grocery clerk or a retired person not to carry?
    How? By accepting their, the LEO's answer to the question of 'are we equal or not?'

    If we are equal then, of course 'all good people ought to be armed where they will.'

    Otherwise we must establish an hierarchy of 'equality' and I submit that LEO in general aren't near the epitome of equality.

    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******
    How are you and I not equal? We can both carry off duty. My background was checked for employment even more than your background for CC.

    Mine involved personal visits to all the places I lived in the past 10-20 years. You get to CC with no such checks... You get to CC with a simple computer background check. Nobody ever checks with your neighbors to see what kind of person you are.

    I cannot OC due to agency restrictions.... but you can OC again withno checks at all.

    So when it comes to being equal... we both get to carry.

    For someone to suggest a LEO leave his gun at the station.... I would counter with the people need to leave their guns at home. That sounds equal to me. We can all fall victim to the criminals who are armed.... equally. :P

    The only difference between you and I is that the state allows me CC in alcohol establishments and I can nowCC all over the US without needing separate permits.

    Here is where you and are not equal. I make enemies every day... you do not! The state and federal government understands this and allows me to carry in more places than you.

    It is also anticipated that as a LEO... I can take police action if necessary and willhave the knowledge and expertise to do so safely.

    We are always on duty... we call in stuff we see but do not take action in person unless it is absolutely necessary.

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    "Imake enemies every day... you do not!"

    The fellers that are married ALWAYS has an "enemy"...we are all MARRIED:P

    (I can carry CCW in Alcohol Establishments in Utah. I can carry pretty much "everywhere" except for "Restricted Areas", which can at times be VERY gray here.)

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    "Imake enemies every day... you do not!"

    The fellers that are married ALWAYS has an "enemy"...we are all MARRIED:P

    (I can carry CCW in Alcohol Establishments in Utah. I can carry pretty much "everywhere" except for "Restricted Areas", which can at times be VERY gray here.)
    Odd that they do not let people in VA.... I have NEVER found anyone in violation of that law...

    Chances are that not many LEOs even know that law anyway. Show your permit and they would not know otherwise.

    I do not drink so it means nothing to me. But the people can always just open that shirt and OC... and sit there.

  11. #11
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    "Imake enemies every day... you do not!"

    The fellers that are married ALWAYS has an "enemy"...we are all MARRIED:P

    (I can carry CCW in Alcohol Establishments in Utah. I can carry pretty much "everywhere" except for "Restricted Areas", which can at times be VERY gray here.)
    Odd that they do not let people in VA.... I have NEVER found anyone in violation of that law...

    Chances are that not many LEOs even know that law anyway. Show your permit and they would not know otherwise.

    I do not drink so it means nothing to me. But the people can always just open that shirt and OC... and sit there.
    I don't drink but I do enjoy going out with my wife and I feel very good that I can CCW at all Bars here in Utah. Even IF they post a "No Gun" sign it carries NO legal weight other than Trespass IF they get to know about it and ask me to leave and I don't.

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    "Imake enemies every day... you do not!"

    The fellers that are married ALWAYS has an "enemy"...we are all MARRIED:P

    (I can carry CCW in Alcohol Establishments in Utah. I can carry pretty much "everywhere" except for "Restricted Areas", which can at times be VERY gray here.)
    Odd that they do not let people in VA.... I have NEVER found anyone in violation of that law...

    Chances are that not many LEOs even know that law anyway. Show your permit and they would not know otherwise.

    I do not drink so it means nothing to me. But the people can always just open that shirt and OC... and sit there.
    I don't drink but I do enjoy going out with my wife and I feel very good that I can CCW at all Bars here in Utah. Even IF they post a "No Gun" sign it carries NO legal weight other than Trespass IF they get to know about it and ask me to leave and I don't.
    And then..... they need to know. If you do it right.. nobody will know.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    And then..... they need to know. If you do it right.. nobody will know.
    So, now you are advocating that he violate the property rights of the owners of bars and restaurants that serve alcohol?

    Tch, tch, tch. The corruption has begun.

    "I sense great anger in you, young Skywalker..."



    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Thankfully it was a LEO that went nuts this time. What pisses me off is that if it had been a regular citizen then we'd be hearing the anti's calling for a ban on 'assault weapons' and hi-cap magazines.

    The lesson here is the same as always carry your self defense weapon at all times!

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    At his blog, http://www.armsandthelaw.com/, David Hardy points out that the Brady Campaign is silent. He has some interesting thoughts about why.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    I believe that everyone legally able to own a gun, should be able to carry it almost anywhere. (Except for prisons, secure facilities or things of that nature.) That said I think it is a great thing for LEO's to carry offduty. Since they are never really off duty, and in some cases have a legal obligation to get involved that I do not. Yes, occasionally a few bad apples will become LEO's, but they have to go through a much more thorough background check than any CHL applicant that I know of.

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:

    or at least against 20 YEAR OLD sheriffs:shock:.

    Here in Utah I think we have to be 21 to be a LEO of ANY kind

    You mean sheriffs DEPUTY? Get it right! Sorry if I sound snarky, but Utah is one of the last places I would set standards from. Sounds like you have some funky stuff going on out there yourself!:what:


    In my 25+ years of law enforcement* I've never had a problem with the officers who were in their late teens/early 20's. Any more than you have a problem with the teenagers in the military out defending your freedom to say stupid things.
    Age had nothing to do with this.

    Wisconsin requires a 2 year degree (which that cop had) or 60 college credits. It's not like he walked out of the 8th grade and got hired by the local PD.







    *Yes, in Wisconsin!

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    Citizen wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    And then..... they need to know. If you do it right.. nobody will know.
    So, now you are advocating that he violate the property rights of the owners of bars and restaurants that serve alcohol?

    Tch, tch, tch. The corruption has begun.

    "I sense great anger in you, young Skywalker..."


    Oh My... I was not telling anyone to do anything in violation of the law.

    All I said was... "If"

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    On the one hand you risk being asked to leave, on the other, death; I say carry it!

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