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Thread: Father lost Gun Rights

  1. #1
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    Father lost Gun Rights I was convicted for assault in the fourth degree, for pushing someone in my home. This person is not family or a household member, there was no domestic violence charge. I have no prior felonies, assaults or any other type of violent crime and have no history of substance abuse or mental issues.
    My father had guns in the home. They were not used in any crime but were seized by police.
    4th degree assault is not a crime you can loose your Gun Rights for in Washington State. 'The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired,' the State constitution clearly makes that an individual right.
    The Judge ordered me not to own or possess guns for a year. She also ordered that the sheriff may release the guns to my Father 'for the purpose of resale only'. My father is a 80yo WW2 vet. He was not and never has been involved in any crime. He owns the house his guns were seized from.
    My Father was going to bring the guns to a local gun shop to put on consignment. He was going to take a big monetary loss to follow the Judges orders and avoid having to hire an attorney. The Sheriff never released my fathers property. He was given the run around, he has a CCL but needed a state background check, next a federal background check. Various authorizations from detectives, prosecutors supervisors who were never available, out of the office or on vacation. Phone calls. They lied to him. He waited months.
    My Father has lost his Rights too. The Sheriff says now I could get access to the guns if they are ever released to my father. There are 5 months remaining on the order Now the Sheriff has got the Judge to order that my fathers guns are to be destroyed in a couple of months if they are not sold. AND that the guns are not to be released to my father so he can sell them. They can not be put on consignment. AND My father has to bring PROOF with him that he owns the guns along with a buyer and the Sheriff has to agree that the buyer is buying the guns. In court the it was determined and agreed by all that my father was the owner of the guns, but that isn't proof for them.
    All this is for my assault conviction. There is nothing new, not even a parking ticket. My Father has never been brought before the court or served with papers of any kind. They never even sent him a letter. The NRA gave my Dad the name of an attorney he deals with petitioning the court for restoration of lost rights, my dad would have to pay him, he does not work for damages. What we need is a civil rights attorney who defends the RKBA. My father does not deserve this. It is stressful. He has had cancer and heart surgery. I want him to survive this. He wants to know why they are doing this to him.




  2. #2
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    You simply don't have the right to own/possess guns on probation... you probably were sentenced to x days in jail, with y days suspended plus z days on probation. until all x, y, and z have been completed, you are under the order of the court to do or not do certain things-- more or less-- at the courts discretion; these restrictions on your freedom can include owning/possesing guns.

    Your father having the guns, assuming you don't live there, shouldn't be an issue and they never should have been seized in the first place... IMO, but, IANAL. I would suspect if you live there or have it as your listed address, that one of the conditions of your release is not being near guns (or at least not living in a house with them.)... but we would certainly need more details to really get to the bottom of this all.

    What court was this in? Do you have the case number?

  3. #3
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    there was no probation
    suspended sentence. judge told me no guns for 1 year. I am not sure if that was legal for assault4. but my fathers guns should not be subject to forfiture.

    RCW 9.41.098
    Forfeiture of firearms — Disposition — Confiscation.
    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.098
    " (3) The court shall order the firearm returned to the owner upon a showing that there is no probable cause to believe a violation of subsection (1) of this section existed or the firearm was stolen from the owner or the owner neither had knowledge of nor consented to the act or omission involving the firearm which resulted in its forfeiture."

    My father wanted his guns returned and was going to sell some on consignment and keep the rest elsewhere.

  4. #4
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    Sounds a little unfair... :?

  5. #5
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    It sounds to me like the judge saw the assault 4 and assumed it was domestic violence, which is classified as assault 4 DV. You are correct that assault 4 without DV is not an offense that you can lose your firearm rights for. I would, at the minimum, consult an attorney as it seems to me that the courts are violating your fathers 2A rights.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Your father, to avoid allowing you constructive possession of the firearms in the home (at least until your probation is completed), would need to purchase a gun safe and keep the keys/ combo to himself.

  7. #7
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    Obviously you and yoiur father need an attorney for this matter.

  8. #8
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    joshmmm wrote:
    You simply don't have the right to own/possess guns on probation... you probably were sentenced to x days in jail, with y days suspended plus z days on probation. until all x, y, and z have been completed, you are under the order of the court to do or not do certain things-- more or less-- at the courts discretion; these restrictions on your freedom can include owning/possesing guns.

    Your father having the guns, assuming you don't live there, shouldn't be an issue and they never should have been seized in the first place... IMO, but, IANAL. I would suspect if you live there or have it as your listed address, that one of the conditions of your release is not being near guns (or at least not living in a house with them.)... but we would certainly need more details to really get to the bottom of this all.

    What court was this in? Do you have the case number?
    You are incorrect about probation. You are allowed to own guns on probation as long as the court hasn't forbid you from gun ownership. And suspended days of a jail sentence are not effective in the way that you have suggested. I'm sure people that have had DUIs and still carry guns can attest to this. I personally haven't had a dui, but that is a good example of a suspended sentence and probation that would not restrict gun ownership.

  9. #9
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    expvideo wrote:
    joshmmm wrote:
    You simply don't have the right to own/possess guns on probation... you probably were sentenced to x days in jail, with y days suspended plus z days on probation. until all x, y, and z have been completed, you are under the order of the court to do or not do certain things-- more or less-- at the courts discretion; these restrictions on your freedom can include owning/possesing guns.

    Your father having the guns, assuming you don't live there, shouldn't be an issue and they never should have been seized in the first place... IMO, but, IANAL. I would suspect if you live there or have it as your listed address, that one of the conditions of your release is not being near guns (or at least not living in a house with them.)... but we would certainly need more details to really get to the bottom of this all.

    What court was this in? Do you have the case number?
    You are incorrect about probation. You are allowed to own guns on probation as long as the court hasn't forbid you from gun ownership. And suspended days of a jail sentence are not effective in the way that you have suggested. I'm sure people that have had DUIs and still carry guns can attest to this. I personally haven't had a dui, but that is a good example of a suspended sentence and probation that would not restrict gun ownership.
    You are totally correct--I didn't really fully explain that... but I did say the court can impose restrictions at its discretion and that can include gun possession... so yes, we agree... sorry I didn't make it super clear that it is not a given, just a most likely that the court will impose that restriction. (probably unlikely with a DUI, probably very likely with any assault???)

  10. #10
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    Now I understand. Sorry for the misunderstanding, looks like we're on the same page.

  11. #11
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    I would first write a letter to the judge herself stating that her order to release the weapons to your father hasn't been carried out and you demand that he be given his firearms. After he has them in his possession again, then I'd start making the arguement that the weapons shouldn't be destroyed or sold. But I would stress the fact that the sheriff isn't obeying the judge's order in releasing the weapons.

    Also, I'd find a good friend of the family and sell the weapons to him/her if and when your father needs to sell them. I'd do it right with money changing hands and a receipt and everything. I'd just lowball the figure of what they're worth, but I wouldn't go so far as to pay only a dollar for example. At least you would be "keeping them in the family" for someday you may want to buy them back again. All legal, no problems.

    Good luck.

  12. #12
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    benwa wrote:
    Now the Sheriff has got the Judge to order that my fathers guns are to be destroyed in a couple of months if they are not sold.
    This is in Washington right?

    I need to did out the little gun laws pamphlet that came with my CPL that explains all of Washington's gun laws, but there is a law regarding destruction of firearms...

    9.41.060 or 9.41.070 to carry a concealed pistol: PROVIDED, That it is an absolute defense to forfeiture if the person possessed a valid Washington concealed pistol license within the preceding two years and has not become ineligible for a concealed pistol license in the interim. Before the firearm may be returned, the person must pay the past due renewal fee and the current renewal fee;

    (b) Commercially sold to any person without an application as required by RCW 9.41.090;

    (c) In the possession of a person prohibited from possessing the firearm under RCW 9.41.040 or 9.41.045;

    (d) In the possession or under the control of a person at the time the person committed or was arrested for committing a felony or committing a nonfelony crime in which a firearm was used or displayed;

    (e) In the possession of a person who is in any place in which a concealed pistol license is required, and who is under the influence of any drug or under the influence of intoxicating liquor, as defined in chapter 46.61 RCW;

    (f) In the possession of a person free on bail or personal recognizance pending trial, appeal, or sentencing for a felony or for a nonfelony crime in which a firearm was used or displayed, except that violations of Title 77 RCW shall not result in forfeiture under this section;

    (g) In the possession of a person found to have been mentally incompetent while in possession of a firearm when apprehended or who is thereafter committed pursuant to chapter 10.77 or 71.05 RCW;

    (h) Used or displayed by a person in the violation of a proper written order of a court of general jurisdiction; or

    (i) Used in the commission of a felony or of a nonfelony crime in which a firearm was used or displayed.

    (2) Upon order of forfeiture, the court in its discretion may order destruction of any forfeited firearm. A court may temporarily retain forfeited 63.32.010 or 63.40.010; may be disposed of in any manner determined by the local legislative authority. Any proceeds of an auction or trade may be retained by the legislative authority. This subsection (2)(a) applies only to 63.32.010 or 63.40.010.

    (b) Except as provided in (c) of this subsection, of the inventoried 9.41.098 that were in effect immediately preceding May 7, 1993; or

    (ii) Trade, auction, or arrange for the auction of, rifles and shotguns. In addition, the law enforcement agency shall either trade, auction, or arrange for the auction of, short 79A.25.210. All trades or auctions of 79A.25.210.

    (c) Antique 63.35.020, must be disposed of as follows: (i) 43.70.540.

    Effective date -- 1994 sp.s. c 7 §§ 401-410, 413-416, 418-437, and 439-460: See note following RCW 9.41.010.

    Effective date -- 1993 c 243: "This act is necessary for the immediate preservation of the public peace, health, or safety, or support of the state government and its existing public institutions, and shall take effect immediately [May 7, 1993]." [1993 c 243 § 2.]

    Severability -- 1989 c 222: See RCW 63.35.900.

    Legislative findings and intent -- 1987 c 506: See note following RCW 77.04.020.

    Legislative finding, purpose -- Severability -- 1987 c 373: See notes following RCW 46.61.502.

    Severability -- 1983 c 232: See note following RCW 9.41.010.



    If they are legal guns it appears they cannot be destroyed.

  13. #13
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    I was never put on probation.
    I was ordered 1` year no guns.

    this is WA
    this rcw http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.098
    i quote I think explains what the jusdge should have done. She was made aware of the law, in court and in a letter.
    "(3) The court shall order the firearm returned to the owner upon a showing that there is no probable cause to believe a violation of subsection (1) of this section existed or the firearm was stolen from the owner or the owner neither had knowledge of nor consented to the act or omission involving the firearm which resulted in its forfeiture."


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