-
We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
-
If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
-
Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.
Under 18 - Open Carry?
- Thread starter andyffer
- Start date
klasikahl
New member
imported post
I am not a lawyer, but my understanding of ARS is that a person under the age of 18, and over the age of 14, may open carry with the parent's permission. Furthermore, the parent does not have to be present if the parent's permission is given in a signed and notarized letter.
I am not a lawyer, but my understanding of ARS is that a person under the age of 18, and over the age of 14, may open carry with the parent's permission. Furthermore, the parent does not have to be present if the parent's permission is given in a signed and notarized letter.
drhink
New member
imported post
andyffer wrote:
(This partadded 12/31/07 to clarify: please see my post below from 12/31/07.
To summarize, the answer to your question "legal for me to openly carry a pistol if I were with one of my parents" is 'yes', but ONLY if hunting or atthe range. If you OC a pistol under any other situation, you are potentially riskingboth yourself and your parentto Federal firearm law violations! Federal law restricts HANDGUN posession by persons under 18except for certain "sporting" activities like hunting and target shooting. )
It is legal ONLY if you are accompanied by a parent, legal guardian, or certified firearm instructor (the latter requires parental consent). Note this includes being in a car, so it is unlawful to transport a firearm in a car w/o a parent.
Written permission from your parents is NOT enough, notarized or not. Any adult won't do. MUST be parent, legal guardian or certified instructor. Got it? It ain't like a driver's learner permit where anyone over 21 will do.
Violation will result in immediate seizure of the firearm. Be smart and safe.
Here is the statute (I ommitted the latter paragraphs on penalties beyond the seizure of the firearm). Note there are exceptions, like being on your family's property or if over 13, when hunting or varmint hunting on a farm.
ARS 13-3111. Minors prohibited from carrying or possessing firearms; exceptions; seizure and forfeiture; penalties; classification
A. Except as provided in subsection B, an unemancipated person who is under eighteen years of age and who is unaccompanied by a parent, grandparent or guardian, or a certified hunter safety instructor or certified firearms safety instructor acting with the consent of the unemancipated person's parent or guardian, shall not knowingly carry or possess on his person, within his immediate control, or in or on a means of transportation a firearm in any place that is open to the public or on any street or highway or on any private property except private property owned or leased by the minor or the minor's parent, grandparent or guardian.
B. This section does not apply to a person who is fourteen, fifteen, sixteen or seventeen years of age and who is any of the following:
1. Engaged in lawful hunting or shooting events or marksmanship practice at established ranges or other areas where the discharge of a firearm is not prohibited.
2. Engaged in lawful transportation of an unloaded firearm for the purpose of lawful hunting.
3. Engaged in lawful transportation of an unloaded firearm between the hours of 5:00 a.m. and 10:00 p.m. for the purpose of shooting events or marksmanship practice at established ranges or other areas where the discharge of a firearm is not prohibited.
4. Engaged in activities requiring the use of a firearm that are related to the production of crops, livestock, poultry, livestock products, poultry products, or ratites or in the production or storage of agricultural commodities.
C. If the minor is not exempt under subsection B and is in possession of a firearm, a peace officer shall seize the firearm at the time the violation occurs.
andyffer wrote:
(This partadded 12/31/07 to clarify: please see my post below from 12/31/07.
To summarize, the answer to your question "legal for me to openly carry a pistol if I were with one of my parents" is 'yes', but ONLY if hunting or atthe range. If you OC a pistol under any other situation, you are potentially riskingboth yourself and your parentto Federal firearm law violations! Federal law restricts HANDGUN posession by persons under 18except for certain "sporting" activities like hunting and target shooting. )
It is legal ONLY if you are accompanied by a parent, legal guardian, or certified firearm instructor (the latter requires parental consent). Note this includes being in a car, so it is unlawful to transport a firearm in a car w/o a parent.
Written permission from your parents is NOT enough, notarized or not. Any adult won't do. MUST be parent, legal guardian or certified instructor. Got it? It ain't like a driver's learner permit where anyone over 21 will do.
Violation will result in immediate seizure of the firearm. Be smart and safe.
Here is the statute (I ommitted the latter paragraphs on penalties beyond the seizure of the firearm). Note there are exceptions, like being on your family's property or if over 13, when hunting or varmint hunting on a farm.
ARS 13-3111. Minors prohibited from carrying or possessing firearms; exceptions; seizure and forfeiture; penalties; classification
A. Except as provided in subsection B, an unemancipated person who is under eighteen years of age and who is unaccompanied by a parent, grandparent or guardian, or a certified hunter safety instructor or certified firearms safety instructor acting with the consent of the unemancipated person's parent or guardian, shall not knowingly carry or possess on his person, within his immediate control, or in or on a means of transportation a firearm in any place that is open to the public or on any street or highway or on any private property except private property owned or leased by the minor or the minor's parent, grandparent or guardian.
B. This section does not apply to a person who is fourteen, fifteen, sixteen or seventeen years of age and who is any of the following:
1. Engaged in lawful hunting or shooting events or marksmanship practice at established ranges or other areas where the discharge of a firearm is not prohibited.
2. Engaged in lawful transportation of an unloaded firearm for the purpose of lawful hunting.
3. Engaged in lawful transportation of an unloaded firearm between the hours of 5:00 a.m. and 10:00 p.m. for the purpose of shooting events or marksmanship practice at established ranges or other areas where the discharge of a firearm is not prohibited.
4. Engaged in activities requiring the use of a firearm that are related to the production of crops, livestock, poultry, livestock products, poultry products, or ratites or in the production or storage of agricultural commodities.
C. If the minor is not exempt under subsection B and is in possession of a firearm, a peace officer shall seize the firearm at the time the violation occurs.
drhink
New member
imported post
r6-rider wrote:
ARS 13-3111(A) doesn't apply to emancipated minors, HOWEVER,Chapter 44Title 18 US Code Section 922 restricts sales toand posessionof handguns & ammobyanyone under 18. Federal law saysa person under age 18 may not possess a handgun or handgun ammunition, and it is illegal for a person to provide a handgun or handgun ammunition to a person under age 18, except for target shooting, hunting, or certain other exempted purposes.
USC Sec 922 also says no licensed dealer can sell a handgun or ammo to anyone under 21 years of age. So the only way for someone 18-20 years old (in AZ, anyway)to obtain a handgun is through a private sale, gift or inheritance.
Federal law has no minimum age limit forposessing a rifle or shotgun. If you can figure out a way to OC a rifle or shotgun that would satisfy AZ laws, best of luck to you.
Note: I'm not a lawyer, and you shouldn't rely on anything in this forum as 100% accurate legal advice. When in doubt,get bona fide legal counsel.
r6-rider wrote:
ARS 13-3111(A) doesn't apply to emancipated minors, HOWEVER,Chapter 44Title 18 US Code Section 922 restricts sales toand posessionof handguns & ammobyanyone under 18. Federal law saysa person under age 18 may not possess a handgun or handgun ammunition, and it is illegal for a person to provide a handgun or handgun ammunition to a person under age 18, except for target shooting, hunting, or certain other exempted purposes.
USC Sec 922 also says no licensed dealer can sell a handgun or ammo to anyone under 21 years of age. So the only way for someone 18-20 years old (in AZ, anyway)to obtain a handgun is through a private sale, gift or inheritance.
Federal law has no minimum age limit forposessing a rifle or shotgun. If you can figure out a way to OC a rifle or shotgun that would satisfy AZ laws, best of luck to you.
Note: I'm not a lawyer, and you shouldn't rely on anything in this forum as 100% accurate legal advice. When in doubt,get bona fide legal counsel.
me812
Regular Member
imported post
Chapter 44Title 18 US Code Section 922 restricts sales toand posessionof handguns & ammobyanyone under 18. Federal law saysa person under age 18 may not possess a handgun or handgun ammunition
This is true, but the federal laws regarding prohibited possessors are almost never enforced here unless someone commits a violent crime.
Chapter 44Title 18 US Code Section 922 restricts sales toand posessionof handguns & ammobyanyone under 18. Federal law saysa person under age 18 may not possess a handgun or handgun ammunition
This is true, but the federal laws regarding prohibited possessors are almost never enforced here unless someone commits a violent crime.
Dahwg
Regular Member
imported post
andyffer wrote:
andyffer wrote:
How did you purchase a 1911 if you're under 18? You mean your parents purchased it for you don't you? Otherwise it was an illegal straw purchase- not a good thing. :?
drhink
New member
imported post
Since you're having trouble sifting through all the AZ and US codes, here is the answer to your question. I gave you this same answer in an earlier post, but I'll say it again:
If you are in AZ andunder 18, theONLY time you may legally posesses a handgun (open carry or cased)is while actively participating in hunting or target shooting (at a range), AND, you must be doing it with a parent, legal guardian, or certified firearm instructor.
Note that posess does not mean "own', and if anyone asks, your parent "owns" it. You cannot "own" a handgun if you are under 18. And "legal guardian" means only an official legal guardian. Meaning: someone other than your biological parents that has legal custody of you as decreed by a court. An adult friend, neighbor, relative etc.is NOTyour legal guardian (permanent or temporary)unless a court has said so. So if Grandpa or Uncle Bob wants to "take you out shooting", they better have their NRA Certified Firearms Instructor card or paperworkwith them, or they need to bring Mom or Dad along, or they adopt you first.
To repeat,it's illegal no matter who you are withEXCEPT WHILE HUNTING OR TARGET SHOOTING. Traveling to/from these activities seems to be a gray area in the courts, but for the most part, you areNOT considered "participating" if you are still in a car on your way to the activity. Once you get to the target range or hunting area (w/ the parent), you could then open carry a handgun as long as they are doing the activity with you or supervising you. THAT IS THE ONLY TIME YOU CAN OPEN CARRY A HANDGUN. Note: there is no technical legal requirement that you usetheholsterdhandgun for the actual hunting or target shooting. Example: You go dove or rabbit hunting with your Dad and use a 20ga shotgun for the game. You could open carry the 1911 in a belt holsterduring that activity. However, you might not be given any leeway at ashooting range to open carry one gun while actually shooting a different one. It depends on the range rulesand/or aLEO who might happen to be there. And BTW, a lot of LEOs train at public ranges, so don't think for a minute no one is going to notice you and scrutinize you if you appear to be too young to have a handgun (under 18). You Mom or Dad needs to stay close by at all times.
If you get caught (open carry or cased) with the handgun w/o your parent/guardian or adult instructor, say good bye to your 1911and possibly watch Mom or Dad later get arrested on a federal weapons violation ("providing a handgun to a minor"). You, being a minor, will probably get probation and the 1911 confiscated. However, Mom or Dad mightget federal prison time, and will never be able to legally own a gun again if they get a felony conviction.
Lastly, never, ever,carry the 1911 concealed underany circumstance. It is illegal fora person under18to have a concealed weapon at any time or place in AZ. So if you revisit the hunting example above, if you wear a coat, you need to have your belt and holster outside of the coat. Remember, "Open Carry" means always visible.
Since you're having trouble sifting through all the AZ and US codes, here is the answer to your question. I gave you this same answer in an earlier post, but I'll say it again:
If you are in AZ andunder 18, theONLY time you may legally posesses a handgun (open carry or cased)is while actively participating in hunting or target shooting (at a range), AND, you must be doing it with a parent, legal guardian, or certified firearm instructor.
Note that posess does not mean "own', and if anyone asks, your parent "owns" it. You cannot "own" a handgun if you are under 18. And "legal guardian" means only an official legal guardian. Meaning: someone other than your biological parents that has legal custody of you as decreed by a court. An adult friend, neighbor, relative etc.is NOTyour legal guardian (permanent or temporary)unless a court has said so. So if Grandpa or Uncle Bob wants to "take you out shooting", they better have their NRA Certified Firearms Instructor card or paperworkwith them, or they need to bring Mom or Dad along, or they adopt you first.
To repeat,it's illegal no matter who you are withEXCEPT WHILE HUNTING OR TARGET SHOOTING. Traveling to/from these activities seems to be a gray area in the courts, but for the most part, you areNOT considered "participating" if you are still in a car on your way to the activity. Once you get to the target range or hunting area (w/ the parent), you could then open carry a handgun as long as they are doing the activity with you or supervising you. THAT IS THE ONLY TIME YOU CAN OPEN CARRY A HANDGUN. Note: there is no technical legal requirement that you usetheholsterdhandgun for the actual hunting or target shooting. Example: You go dove or rabbit hunting with your Dad and use a 20ga shotgun for the game. You could open carry the 1911 in a belt holsterduring that activity. However, you might not be given any leeway at ashooting range to open carry one gun while actually shooting a different one. It depends on the range rulesand/or aLEO who might happen to be there. And BTW, a lot of LEOs train at public ranges, so don't think for a minute no one is going to notice you and scrutinize you if you appear to be too young to have a handgun (under 18). You Mom or Dad needs to stay close by at all times.
If you get caught (open carry or cased) with the handgun w/o your parent/guardian or adult instructor, say good bye to your 1911and possibly watch Mom or Dad later get arrested on a federal weapons violation ("providing a handgun to a minor"). You, being a minor, will probably get probation and the 1911 confiscated. However, Mom or Dad mightget federal prison time, and will never be able to legally own a gun again if they get a felony conviction.
Lastly, never, ever,carry the 1911 concealed underany circumstance. It is illegal fora person under18to have a concealed weapon at any time or place in AZ. So if you revisit the hunting example above, if you wear a coat, you need to have your belt and holster outside of the coat. Remember, "Open Carry" means always visible.